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Post by cpdad on Jun 12, 2006 21:44:03 GMT -5
most of you probably know this...but i will say it...so everyone knows.
if you sell your rocks on ebay and accept paypal... and say......insurance optional...and a buyer doesnt purchase it....and something gets lost..or broken...you are still responsible...insurance is for the sellers protection....you must say that insurance will be included in the shipping cost...if you would like to protect yourself....you will lose any claim against you...if an item doesnt get delivered...or arrives broken.
you will have to make sure you use delivery confirmation...on any paypal auction...if you do not...whether it is an option to a buyer...or not...if you dont have it...you will lose any non delivery complaint.
if you send any package to a non confirmed address using paypal...all the buyer has to do is say...i didnt receive it in a paypal complaint...and automatically you lose...delivery confirmation or not.
i have seen a lot of auctions lately...that say insurance optional....if you do this in your auctions...and a package gets lost..or broken....and you are using paypal....and the buyer didnt purchase the insurance....paypal will find against you...no matter what...and even go as far as debiting your checking account without you knowing...to recoup the fees.
just thought i would pass this along....it may not mean much in the rock categories...but scammers are showing up everywhere lately.
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Tellfamily
spending too much on rocks
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Member since September 2004
Posts: 476
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Post by Tellfamily on Jun 12, 2006 21:51:09 GMT -5
Good to know, thanks
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Post by Cher on Jun 12, 2006 23:06:39 GMT -5
That's why I don't use paypal anymore. I'm sick of them bumping up their fees and using our $$ and we get less for it. Thanks Kevin, more stuff that's good to know.
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Post by LCARS on Jun 12, 2006 23:10:50 GMT -5
I don't use Paypal, or even Ebay for that matter. Knowing my luck I would probably end up getting screwed on my first transaction or something...
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Post by gemkoi on Jun 12, 2006 23:44:58 GMT -5
you make many good points Kevin, and as a seller on ebay for over 5 years, in have found out many of the ups and downs of buyers vers seller responbilty. And i know for a fact its totally equal.
Sure, if a buyer makes a claim under the sellers nose through paypal, without talking with the seller frist about the problem. Paypal will refund the fees in most cases. However, this is were buyers cant get brunt, as most who use paypal, come from ebay. And a seller has just as much merit as any buyer if one believes in the feedback rating of ebay. I for one never leave negative feedback, and never needed to. Becasue of my fees are clearly stated, if you buy from me, part of the shipping price is for delievey confrimation. Becasue its the only extra service any shipper really needs to cover their butt.
Yes, the hassle and time it takes usally will out weight the complaint. But again, i find that very rare. as well in cases of driect purchasing on my site.
I mean, it more important the buyer takes the time to find out all and any info nessary about purchasing any item online. And that includes picking the vendors brain about basic stuff like shipping insurance and extra fees. How would i go through a claim process if i needed to, kinda things.
Though there are plenty vendors looking to just market, and not inform you really of the how and what toos. Recently, i sure many on this board got an email from a vendor out of india selling the same ole india crap. green tree, moonstone, bloodstone, etc, etc. NOw i am sure they are competetive and have good materials. But just becasue the matter in which i personally was contacted by these people, and the means in which they were just looking for you to contact them to buy. Turns me aways as aa buyer of rough right off. NO mention of policey for returns, shipping rates, if if general. I mean, if i am gonna solicite someone like that, i would give them all the needed info, and state free samples up front. And i replied to this email, as a buyer seeing how they would respond. And stating what inventory i would like to buy, or purchase samples of. ANd guess what, no response. No surpirse becasue these vendor types only care about moving lare amounts of rough inventory.And most liklly figure in a percentage of loss from buyers up front. Becase they know theres gonna be problems.
So my opinion or advise in the matter replies heavy on both parties. *sellers- be clear and up front about cost and polices, put your email everywere and tell buyers to contact you the second they have a question or concer *buyers- do what you do, use soruces like this board to find out who and what is selling and were to find good deals. And most importantly, stones more oftened on bought on impluse. Make sure you take the time to contact a sellers about inventory or polices, and take time to read them. But know as well, rough rocks are not a siuteble thing to buy online if you're a picky person. buy proven rough, or slabs. OR know that some will be good and some wont when you buuy bulk or parcels. And never wait, or file a complaint unless the seller is unwilling to help or refund the money frist.
IN my 5+years of selling on ebay, i refund 4 orders. and three of those was just becasue the buyer contacted me and didnt like the rough they got. I told them to keep the rough and refunded the money still. The last one was becasue i didnt state "gold filled" in a wire wrap by Banjo. And the customer siad they couldnt were anything but prue gold. I was like, OK, even if they paid less than i did for the wrap.
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Debs
fully equipped rock polisher
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Member since February 2005
Posts: 1,252
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Post by Debs on Jun 14, 2006 1:49:00 GMT -5
Wow! I didn't know that! Thanks for sharing it in the post.
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Post by creativeminded on Jun 14, 2006 9:02:38 GMT -5
Thank you for that information, I was planning on trying to sell some of my jewelry on e-bay. Tami
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Post by cpdad on Jun 14, 2006 23:03:10 GMT -5
freeform...you are correct...most things can be worked out....just by a little communication...and i would hope that most are done this way...and it seems to be in the rock world most are.
but i have seen...a lot of rock auctions that say insurance optional..i just didnt want anyone new to ebay...and trying to sell some of there finds...to get caught up in this insurance optional thing.
you either include it in your shipping...or take the risk of losing it...if you include it as an option...and the buyer doesnt pay for insurance...you will lose your money...if the post office loses it...or breaks it.
and then you must replace it...or refund it....just because someone thought that there statement about insurance optional was a good call in there listing.
once again...you may say insurance optional....but thats not the case...if what you sell....doesnt arrive...or arrives broken....you lose....you are obligated to deliver what you advertised...if it gets broke in transit...or lost...and you dont have insurance....shame on you.
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Post by cpdad on Jun 15, 2006 18:30:39 GMT -5
oops..meant to ad this to the end of shame on you ;D ;D ;D ;D...i meant that as a funny shame on you...i sure hope no one took it differently. freeform..after i just re read the post...i seen where it looked like i was talking to you in the shame on you part...i wasnt...im still trying to learn how to type what i mean ;D..maybe thats what the little yellow thingys are for...sorry if anyone took the shame on you...as anything diff than what i meant...i sure dont want anyone mad at me ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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offbeat
no posts
Member since May 2010
Posts: 0
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Post by offbeat on Jun 15, 2006 23:56:15 GMT -5
Something to think about. I have been selling on Ebay since 99. I use the click n ship for home shipping and with it you get free delivery confirmation. In the time I have been selling I only had one guy claim that the item didn't get there. He filed a claim and I gave the delivery confirmation info to EBay. That was the end of that as the post office confirmed item was delivered. I put in my auction description that insurance is the buyers choice. I did have another item get lost but had the delivery info to give Ebay. Ebay found in my favor on that too. After a couple of weeks the item still never showed that it was delivered. Even though Ebay found in my favor I did give the guy a refund on the item and the shipping cost (actual cost of course).
I feel I have been very lucky by using the post office. But after the time where an item was actually lost, I won't send out uninsured items. Sure seems like an opening for fraud. All you would have to do is actually pay for shipping and toss out the shipping label and not send. The buyer will get an email stating that item has had shipping paid for and printed. Ebay will honor this as proof of mailing. Way too much room for fraud!!
One last thing. If an insured item is received broken. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT send the item back to the seller. Item has to be taken in to the post office with the packaging it was shipped in to file a claim. They need to look at the item as well as the packaging it was sent in to see if it meets their standards of packaging.
Good luck, it still is a fun way to get a deal every now and then!! Bill
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Post by gemkoi on Jun 16, 2006 12:36:35 GMT -5
Cpdad, i don't take offense, it is very, very important that a buyer know all his or her options. And sometimes i nice when one doesn't have to think about it. I suppose that the salemen's job?
offbeat makes an important point. damage packages can and do happen, but it is the post office fault. Now, safe package which arrive in good condition, but in which there were broken items inside. I would state to the customer to keep them, and refund the money right away. AS that would be my fault for not packing them right.
Also, most buyers, let alone customers of the USPS don't know an insurance claim is for 25% of the stated value. Registered mail is something different and covers a higher claim recope. And though i never been through the process to make a claim with the USPS. I have heard it can take a long time?
To me, from what i seen in claim value, if a seller excepts paypal and a payment, then they should offer the “PayPal Buyer Protection” to substitute usps insurance. I also offer buyer mediation through sqauretrade. So a buyer should never feel they don't have a choice or option. But i also don't like to charge large shipping rates or handling fees. And any amount that is extra, turns off more buyers than it turns on. I am sure theres a stat for that somewhere. Good topic CPdad.
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Post by deb193 on Jun 16, 2006 13:15:36 GMT -5
I think the basic point is that while a listing may state "insurance optional, decline at your own risk", the PayPal protection for item not recieved or item not as described, has been extended to item damaged in shipping - so seller's using PayPal really can't say "at your own risk".
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Post by gemkoi on Jun 16, 2006 16:31:27 GMT -5
as a seller, one should never state anything that has to do with "risk" in your listings. If you do, there no need to be selling online then. Becasue you telling the customer striaght off there been problems. And i for one would easily pass up a seller who notes risk in any product table. Espcially when buying rough rock.
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Post by deb193 on Jun 16, 2006 16:56:59 GMT -5
Shain, I hear you. You speak to the psychology and marketing. It all makes sense.
I offer no disagreement. But, I'm just commenting on the fact that many listings have not caught up to the more recent prevalence of PayPal. You can find many, many, many listings that quote insurance as an option and clearly state that the seller is not responsible for "shipping damage or loss" if the insurance is not elected.
At the same time these same sellers are almost all using PayPal. WHile I am sure some claims are denied, PayPal puts the power on the buyer's side. The buyer can initiate an "item not as described" claim unilaterally. The burden of proof then falls on the seller, and PayPal is holding some of the seller's money.
Even before cpdad started this thread, I had been struck by the discrepancy between what many listings said was policy and what was possible with a PayPal claim.
I bet a lot of these listigs are based on templates from books printed before ebay bought PayPal. It is my thinking that practice has not caught up to the fast moving reality.
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Post by cpdad on Jun 17, 2006 18:57:13 GMT -5
here it is in a nut shell...trying to be short...some of this is new stuff that newer folks need to know.
if you sell an item on ebay and accept paypal.
make sure you have insurance...whether paid buy you or the buyer...make sure you have delivery confirmation...delivery confirmation is free if printing your labels online...if shipping from the post office ...buy it...as of right now..this is your only protection against a non-delivery complaint.
and offbeat is correct...the person you send an item to...will have to provide the packing...and box..to the post office for an insurance claim to proceed...if they will not help with that...you will lose a claim against you.
it nows seems paypal...is making a buyer send the item back to the seller at there cost...with delivery confirmation...once this is provided to paypal...they are issuing a refund to the buyer...but the new scam is to send the seller back an empty box...paypal doesnt care whats in it....just delivery confirmation of a package back to the seller....and thats the truth.
never send an item to a unconfirmed address using paypal...if you do...all the buyer has to do...is say item not received...and paypal will issue a refund to the buyer....no exceptions...it was your choice to send to a unconfirmed address...even if delivery confirmation was used...and thats the truth.
oh and by the way...if your items show up on ebay express...you are reguired to ship to unconfirmed addresses buy paypal and ebay....there is an option to deny the payment...and you can deny it....and file for your listing fees back....but you must endure the feedback that will be left for you by denying it...stupid huh...unless they changed it within the last week or so...thats the way it is... and thats the truth.
opt out of ebay express...by going to your ebay...preferences...and the link should be on that page to opt out.
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