mworb
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2011
Posts: 11
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Post by mworb on Apr 22, 2012 12:27:21 GMT -5
I have an old 14/16 inch Highland Park M2 slab saw. Recently the saw is shutting down repeatedly during each cut, especially with hard materials. Even with softer materials cuts are taking too long and I have to keep restarting the saw because it stops. When I install a rock the saw starts fine then after a few minutes it sounds like a slight knock or click develops but it's not loud or constant. Then a rapping/scraping sound starts for a second or so and the saw shuts down. When this happens it sounds like the saw blade is stalling out but it does not seem to be slipping. If I wait a while and back up the blade in the cut the saw will start again and sometimes cut for a while but then the shut down happens again. The split nuts seem to be contacting the screw drive and all the bearings are rolling on the ways. There is plenty of oil and it is clean. I installed a new blade but the saw is still doing the same thing. I thought maybe the blade was glazed but cutting an old grinding wheel didn't help. I tightened and checked everything I can think of. Over the last month I've also noticed that the carriage is hard to pull back after a cut... it seems to be far tighter and harder to get moving almost as if there is debris on the way rails that keep it from rolling until it gets loosened up. Each cut also seems to be taking longer than it used to. I have no idea what is wrong or what to replace or fix. My guesses are split nuts or bearings but I don't know which bearings could be bad since it looks like everything is moving correctly and working smoothly until I try to cut a rock. Can someone help me or tell me what to check to figure out what is wrong. I am not a mechanic so please respond in lay terms. I live in northwest Washington and would be willing to take it somewhere to get it fixed but don't know where. Thank you in advance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 12:59:25 GMT -5
I am not familiar with that saw but it sounds like the bearings that ride on the ways are bad. If the balls in those bearings are worn out it can start to bind when moving slow but loosen up when you pull the carriage back and free up the balls a little. Is there any way that you can get to those bearings and try to roll them by hand. If they are bad they will turn hard or catchy when you turn them. If you can see those bearings when you pull back the carriage you might see them slide before they start to roll. My saw carriage rides metal on metal but I have seen bearings do this on other machinery.
Hope you figure it out. I am sure someone else with that saw will chime in soon. Jim
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Post by deb193redux on Apr 22, 2012 17:16:21 GMT -5
check all the usual suspects. make sure blade is not glazed or roundsd. make sure belt is not slipping. make sure set screws on pulley's are tight. ... try cutting some fire brick, then some obsidian.
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Post by johnjsgems on Apr 22, 2012 17:36:19 GMT -5
Try leaving vise away from blade, clutch released and start the motor. If the arbor bearings are bad it should make the noise. If no noise than try as suggested above with the vise carriage bearings. Clean the rails really well too. I spray mine down with WD40 to wash debris off. With clutch released it should roll easily with rails clean. If bearings are good.
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Post by jakesrocks on Apr 22, 2012 17:47:21 GMT -5
One other thing to think about. Is the rock really tight in the vise? If the rock shifts even a tiny bit, it will put the blade in a bind and stall your saw.
Another thing. What HP motor are you using ? It should be at the very least 1/2 HP for that saw. 3/4 HP would be better.
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Post by Rockoonz on Apr 22, 2012 18:09:52 GMT -5
If you can take a couple pictures of the saw and post them so we can see what generation of M2 it is it would help. Show pulleys arbor bearings and carriage Does the carriage roll on square ways or does it look like this? What HP rating is the drive motor? Does the motor hang below the saw by gravity or is there a belt tension adjustment? too tight of a belt will wear out the bearings faster. How fast is your feed speed? it's best to keep it on the slowest setting, largest pulley at the front of the saw. As John said clean the rails thoroughly and use a penetrating oil, then see if you can slide it by hand easier. Lee
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Post by catmandewe on Apr 22, 2012 22:15:21 GMT -5
Sounds like you are out of alignment. If your bearings are bad that would make it out of alighnment also. Grab your blade and try to move it up and down, does it move at all? or is it tight?
Tony
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mworb
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2011
Posts: 11
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Post by mworb on Apr 23, 2012 2:47:16 GMT -5
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will post answers for what I need to check in the morning when I have light at the saw. So far I know that the blade is tight and does not seem to wiggle. I've tried two different blades and both seem to run true and parallel with the carriage when you put a pencil in the vise and ride it along the blade. However, I do seem to get a groove in the rock when I restart the saw... I've never had this saw make marks in slabs before. The ways are the square kind and there are I think 12 bearings that roll both above and below the ways. Are these the bearings that some tink may be bad? The ways are clean on all sides and the bearings roll on them easily (a light push of the finger shoots the carriage all the way to the end of the saw). ... Except for right after you make a cut. Now, when you release the clutch to pull the vise back toward the saw opening, it is very difficult to break the carriage loose and get it moving. But once you loosen it up it again rolls easily in both directions. I always keep the speed on the slowest setting because I usually cut hard materials. But the saw is taking longer and longer to make a cut. I think the motor is 3/4 horse but it has hummed along quietly for over a year since I got the saw. I already tried cutting fire brick and then harder stone and the saw shut down on both of them several times. Everything has been tight in the vise. I will have to check in the morning to confirm the motor size and mounting and to double check to see if the blade is moves. What has stumped me is that the saw cut perfectly for over a year. You couldn't even hear it running once you were about 15-20 feet away. It started acting up right after I cleaned it really well and put new oil in it. My husband even pressure washed it ... could cleaning it be an issue? I ordered a new blade (Thanks John) thinking that perhaps the old blade was out of diamonds. Because it really seems like the saw isn't cutting the rock easily and simply gets tired of keeping going and just shuts down. But the way it takes so long makes me think something is slipping... the split nuts on the screw drive perhaps? Also, the oil is getting fairly warm and it never used to get warm at all. Thanks again for helping me figure this out. I know many of the things I am listing as clues probably aren't related to the problem but I'm new at this and know very little about rock saws. I will check out the other things in the morning and will try to post some pictures then. Mary
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Post by johnjsgems on Apr 23, 2012 6:42:40 GMT -5
I'm 1200 miles from my saw but think the vise carriage on square rail saws are more like metal rollers than bearings. I could be wrong though. If rollers the pressure washer wouldn't hurt them. The arbor bearings could be another matter. Or carriage rollers if they are ball bearings. Tony would know better if the bearings are universal.
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Post by catmandewe on Apr 23, 2012 10:30:09 GMT -5
The rollers are bearings pressed onto a brass raceway which is then bolted onto the carriage. A new set of bearings are not too expensive but you need a hydraulic press to get the brass raceways off and back on. Still sounds like it is out of alignment or a cupped blade. Try turning the blade around and see if it cuts any easier. If it is cupped it will turn the cup the other way and then it won't bind up any more. Depends on how good he pressure washed it, some arbor bearings only have a plastic seal and if he got the pressure washer in there and washed all the grease out of the bearings they could have went bad. Turn the blade around and let us know if that helps or not. Then we can go from there.
Tony
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Post by johnjsgems on Apr 23, 2012 11:06:40 GMT -5
She has tried two different blades. Over tightening blades could cause a blade problem. Was the saw pressure washed before or after the problem started?
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mworb
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2011
Posts: 11
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Post by mworb on Apr 24, 2012 12:37:24 GMT -5
The problem started right after the pressure washing! Each bearing on my saw seems to be held by a bolt and a set screw. If you remove the set screw you can take out the bolt that holds the bearing to the carriage. I removed one of the bearings because it wasn't rolling and it didn't want to spin in my hand. I cleaned a lot of gunk out of it and oiled it and it seemed to spin fine and then roll after I reinstalled it. Could the bearings work okay until they get saw gunk in them when the saw is running? It seems the carriage works better after a cut if I throw a lot of oil on it before I try to move it. What is the raceway? I will take photos but it's been pouring and blowing rain and my saw is outside on a porch. If I uncover it, the saw will get water in it. I don't think the blade is too tight. It's just a quarter turn beyond hand tight. Is that okay?
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Post by johnjsgems on Apr 24, 2012 16:36:53 GMT -5
Blade shouldn't be too tight at 1/4 turn. As long as it doesn't slip. The raceway they mentioned are the square rails the carriage rollers run on I think. If the bearings are easily removable you may want to remove and check them all. Also see if vise/carriage will move with clutch engaged by trying to lift/move in all directions. If the bearings are worn the vise could be shifting during cutting and causing blade to bind. Check the main arbor as mentioned before in same way.
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Post by chad on May 27, 2012 17:05:07 GMT -5
Is it correct the m2 can take a 16" blade? For sure?
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Post by johnjsgems on May 27, 2012 20:01:30 GMT -5
Chad, I think all the HP saws were two sizes. Somebody told me the vise says "14-16", 16-18, etc. I've never looked at one to see. The larger blade will almost touch the back wall and be closer to the bottom. If you don't have a pump lube system there will be less oil in the sump so oil could run hotter and sludge up faster. My 24" HP was ordered new with a 20" blade and original owner later put a 24" on it.
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Post by chad on May 27, 2012 20:36:53 GMT -5
That would be fantastic. I got in over my head taking apart my 16" for some restoration and it's still sitting in pieces. Had the opportunity to grab a very good looking M2, presented as a 14". If it can use my 16" blade that really sweetens the deal a lot. It's being cleaned and should be delivered to my "workshop" (storage unit...) in about a week.
Is there a schematic or kit or post somewhere that describes the pump setup you mention if that's something I can add fairly easily?
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Post by Rockoonz on May 28, 2012 10:07:06 GMT -5
Chad, if your HP has both pillow blocks for the arbor on the outside of the box it could be a 14 incher that will not fit a 16 inch blade. I run a thin kerf 12 inch blade in mine. Just take a tape measure and measure from the center of the arbor to the bottom of the tub and to the rear of the tub. If both measurements are over 8 inches you can fit a 16 inch blade.
Lee
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Post by johnjsgems on May 28, 2012 10:14:30 GMT -5
Covington and Diamond Pacific both make pump systems but mine just has a cut off blue plastic barrel, a submersible pump and a hose that goes up to the blade. It splits into two smaller hoses that clamp to the bike fender over the blade.
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Post by chad on Jun 1, 2012 9:23:41 GMT -5
Is there any type of routine maintenance these hp saws need? Haven't had one before and I'd like to avoid hunting replacement parts in the future. Other than keeping the oil clean, is there much it needs?
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jun 1, 2012 10:36:26 GMT -5
What?? You mean you're supposed to keep the oil clean?? I hate that job... Jean
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