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Post by parfive on Jul 3, 2012 15:49:16 GMT -5
“Why don't you head down to the Rez and find a nice Amerind family to give your house to.” Have no fear, mah man – it’s in the will already. ;D The wife’s got some Blackfoot blood.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 3, 2012 15:50:38 GMT -5
Not all drugs are grown. Many of the more potent are produced in labs.
Lets see now. Government labs producing drugs = tax payer dollars.
Taxes on said drugs = opening for cartels to sell cheaper. The cartels wouldn't be doing this if most of their money is going to expenses.
There are still bootleggers producing alcohol to sell. And the ones who are doing it are turning a nice profit. Want a bottle ? I know where I can get it, even tho I don't drink.
If the government or states raise taxes on tobacco much more than they already have, you'll see bootleg cigarettes too. I already know folks who are crossing state lines for cheaper cigarettes. They bring back a carton or 2 for me, if I know they're making a run.
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bushmanbilly
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Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 3, 2012 17:01:39 GMT -5
Evidence? Why doesn't anyone bootleg tobacco and alcohol? Oh yah... not profitable.
Helen, it happens up here. Our Governments are so greedy that they have taxed the shit out of them($13 and higher per pack). So the Mohawks are making them and bootlegging them across Canada. Funny thing is that they get there supplies from the tabaco companies. It is cheaper to get caught with an oz of herb than with counterfeit cigs. Seems the gov. does not like competitors. Gov cigs.......... $90 per carton or 200 cigs Mohawk.............$20 to $40 per carton
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 3, 2012 17:04:45 GMT -5
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2008/04/24/ot-akwesasne-080424.htmlThe RCMP say they are cracking down on a booming cigarette industry based on the aboriginal reserve spanning the St. Lawrence River that they allege supplies most of the illegal cigarettes in Canada. " The majority of contraband tobacco seized by the RCMP from B.C. to Newfoundland do come from the American side of the Akwesasne Mohawk Territory," Sgt. Michael Harvey said Thursday as the RCMP prepared to dispose of enough tobacco to make 3.7 million cigarettes, seized from the reserve straddling the borders of Quebec, Ontario and New York state. Harvey alleged that 90 per cent of illegal cigarettes sold in Canada — mostly in Central Canada —come from Akwesasne, and police are now seizing in one week the number of cigarettes that they used to confiscate in a month. "The Canadian people think that they're saving tax dollars by buying these illicit tobacco, but in fact, they're financing organized crime groups that are using the geography of our border to move illegal products back and forth and then to financially gain from the sale of this illicit project," Harvey said. "It is a public safety issue.
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bushmanbilly
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Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 3, 2012 17:11:35 GMT -5
Dang Americans. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) ;D ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) :nono: :help: :cheesy:
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 3, 2012 17:31:43 GMT -5
Keep your danged Mohawks on your side of the river. :cheesy: :cheesy: The government blames the people wanting to buy a cheaper product, rather than blame themselves and their greed for tax dollars. Happens on both sides of the border.
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Post by Woodyrock on Jul 3, 2012 17:34:26 GMT -5
If you guys think the drug cartels are only operating in the border states, your hat is pulled down over your eyes. They have grow operations in most of our states, staffed by illegals, mostly on BLM land, and parks. This IS a concern to rock collectors, and other who visit the hinderlands.
The Federal Government is locating these drug grows using drones. What I do not understand is why those same drones do not put a nice missile on them. It would only take a few missile strikes to get these operations back to Mexico. Woody
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 17:34:33 GMT -5
Billy, OBVIOUSLY your taxes are way worse than ours, because NO ONE bootlegs tobacco here in the USA that I've ever heard of. Except maybe on the Indian Reservations, but that's completely legal, they don't owe taxes. They can't SHIP it tho, that's interstate commerce.
What's telling us about illegal stuff in Canada got to do with the US's lack of bootlegged liquor or cigs?
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 3, 2012 17:44:30 GMT -5
Again government greed at work. Overly high taxation has the same result as prohibition. If you make something too expensive to afford, it's the same in the long run as making it illegal. It opens the window for crime, as in moonshiners and illegal cigarettes Got to learn where to draw the taxation line. This even hold true with income taxes. Make them too high as in many socialist countries, and, like in Greece, folks simply stop paying their income taxes. Greece has a tax rate running from about 18% -45% so 95% of the people file they make less that 30,000 euros thus evading higher taxes. Also, make taxes too high and folks simply move somewhere where they are lower. Same way with medical care or medical drugs. Make restrictions too strict or make drugs too expensive to market or procedures too expensive to purchase and folks go to foreign countries where the care or drugs are affordable...Mel
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 3, 2012 17:46:23 GMT -5
Where there is profit, there is bootleggers. Nothing new, the 1st article is from 2003, the second article is from this spring. COMMISSIONER ROTH ANNOUNCES ARREST OF 12 TOBACCO BOOTLEGGERS New York State Tax and Finance Commissioner Arthur J. Roth today announced the arrest of 12 men on various criminal charges relating to a vast smuggling operation that provided counterfeit and bootleg cigarettes to the New York Metropolitan region. ... ...All transactions were in excess of 300 cartons and were paid for in U.S. currency. A total of 71,467 cartons were purchased by the suspects for $2,167,640.00, with a resulting tax loss to New York State and New York City of approximately $2,452,000.00. www.tax.ny.gov/press/rel/archive/2003/sting050203.htmHalf of Cigarettes Sold in City are Bootleg, DA Says Half the city's cigarettes are sold with fake tax stamps or with no tax stamps at all, according to the New York City Department of Finance. So when consumers pay the "tax money" of $5.85 per pack, the profits end up in the pockets of bootleggers — and the city loses half a billion tax dollars a year. www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120229/williamsburg-greenpoint-bushwick/bootleggers-steal-taxes-on-half-of-cigarettes-sold-city-da-says
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 17:48:14 GMT -5
Helen: *L* I'm conservative, not stupid. ( Despite what you may think *L*). I've never seen the drug wars as a liberal vs conservative issue. Basic logic says, if you want to create a theater for criminal activity and a boost for growth in law enforcement , just make something illegal. Could be booze, drugs, soda pop or condoms as long as it's something a lot of folks want or need. Imagine what a shake up it would be if guns were actually made illegal as many desire. First off you'd make criminals out of all those who own the 200,000,000 guns in the ole US of A. Then you'd have criminals selling blackmarket guns and ammo, back street gunsmiths, and probably a rebellion on your hands. Certainly a good excuse for a police state. Though I've got to say that anyone who'd take a gun confiscation job in the US would have to be desperate for work as life expectancy for such folks might be kinda short *L* Here in Texas, the "Come and Take It" flag is still real popular.....Mel Hrm! You guys thought I was the stupid one if I recall:). I see no one criminalizing guns. And you are absolutely right, that would be a revolt. Conveniently, no one is stupid enough to try, and all the sky is falling to the contrary hasn't made it happen yet. AT THE LEAST Texas and Florida would withdraw from the Union (again). It just can't happen. Btw, for those who missed this: ![](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PPACA_Premium_CRS.jpg) Direct Link, I don't know why the chart won't embed here - AHA!!! The link has a COLON in the middle of it and the antique forum software doesn't read it as a web address. You will have to copy and paste the line: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PPACA_Premium_CRS.jpgThe above table is the absolute maximum anyone can be made to pay for Health Insurance under Obamacare as of 2014. A family of 4 making $93,000 can be charged a maximum of $8,000 for Health insurance a year. A family of 4 making $75,000 a year can be charged a maximum of $6,000 A family of 4 making $50,000 a year can be charged a maximum of $2700 a year. A single person making $25000 a year (that's retirees on Social Security) can be charged a maximum of $217 a YEAR, and if married, a maximum of $291 a YEAR. Looks like everyone's insurance premiums are about to go down in 2014... in our case, we'll be paying 25% what we are paying right now, so we won't have to cancel our insurance. I can't WAIT to get my Insurance REFUND due me now that Obamacare is passed. The one that said they have to pay out 85% in medical costs from premiums collected, and if they do not, they OWE A REFUND to the insured. Since I have Aetna, and happen to know that Aetna made a 33% profit last year, and my insurance was $20,000... they should owe me $3000, depending on how they do the math:). (20K divided by 3, then cut in half for their legal 15% profit). And the Aetna CEO who made 41 MILLION DOLLARS last year doesn't even need a paycut. I'm happy with my meager $3000 for $20,000 in Insurance we spent 3 well visits benefiting from. If Obamacare had been overturned, they would have owed me absolutely nothing. Wonder when we get our checks? Obamacare is putting money in our pockets! Yippee! I just love Obama:). WHOA... just realized... should be WAY more than that... bet 41 MILLION dollars in CEO salary alone won't fit in that 15% overage they are allowed... LMAO!!!! I'm so happy with Obamacare, I'm just dancing:).
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 3, 2012 18:00:18 GMT -5
Since both my wife and I have Tricare, and I have Medicare A&B, both run by the government, what are the chances that I'll be getting a rebate ? Slim to none is my bet.
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Jul 3, 2012 18:06:27 GMT -5
Gotta love that Obama Money!!! :drool:
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 18:08:33 GMT -5
It's going to have to come from the minimum 28% tax on those NETTING (NOT grossing) over 1 million a year (remember, CORPORATIONS ARE PEOPLE, so GE who made 10 BILLION dollars in 2009 and paid ZERO tax will have to pay 28% too on PROFITS... boohoo).
Now to get the Republican fillibuster to get with the program:).
We're all going to vote them out right:)?
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 18:09:41 GMT -5
Don, if Tricare made a profit OVER 15% of the medical costs of their INSURED, then yes, you will get a refund too:).
Why do I keep wanting to call you Jake?!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 3, 2012 18:17:30 GMT -5
Let us all know when you get that refund! I don't think ANY insurers are going to cough it up...
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 18:20:45 GMT -5
Let us all know when you get that refund! I don't think ANY insurers are going to cough it up... That's a really good question... but if it's a federal law, you'd think they'd get fined for not coughing it up? Wonder what happens to Corporations who violate federal law? They can't throw those 'people' in jail.... We all know what happens to US if we violate the federal law that says we have to pay taxes...
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 3, 2012 18:31:07 GMT -5
Vote who out Helen ? Obama and his socialist cronies ? You Betcha. They're gone.
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Post by helens on Jul 3, 2012 18:36:07 GMT -5
No, vote out the idiot Republicans in Congress who fillibustered the Jobs bill, which would hire a million americans NOW rebuilding US infrastructure.
And who will NOT pass a common sense fairness minimum on those NETTING over 1 million a year to pay 28%, when the top MIDDLE CLASS rate is 35%.
I had an argument with a former Republican a few days ago who owns a small business. She wanted Obama OUT because her company would have to pay more taxes. Turns out, her company GROSSED $900,000 a year, and their NET was $86,000 a year. I showed her that that means she makes $86K a year. DOH!!! She's voting Democrat now that she could see exactly what it means (not to mention that if the Jobs bill passed, her company would benefit... a LOT, instead of scraping by, 1 lost job from bankruptcy).
How does someone who is IN business making almost a million dollars a year have trouble distinguishing between GROSS income and NET income?!
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 3, 2012 18:43:10 GMT -5
The corporate officers and employees can be held criminally and civilly liable for wrong doings. The corporation itself is a legal entity not a person. The Canadian cig. taxes were passed to stop people from smoking. I remember when they first doubled prices reading about the "plain folks" busted at the border trying to smuggle in supplies. Pricing to stop bad habits sounds like a California thing. You should see how much tax we pay on a gallon of gasoline where the politicians think they can force hybrids down our throats.
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