electricface
starting to spend too much on rocks
First fish of the day
Member since August 2012
Posts: 211
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Post by electricface on Sept 1, 2012 11:37:19 GMT -5
Well it has been only 8 days since I started my first tumble and was excited to check the progress. I found most of the rough edges have wore down however on many rocks there are small pitted areas. I made a mess but kept it contained. I realized I had under filled the barrel to start with. So at this point I added rocks to fill the volume and was overweight. Sigh I removed rocks till the weight was what I think is correct. Added 1tbs of grit in accordance to what the tutorial recommended. So off we go for another week. Question - I have lortone 33b so should I fill the total weight of the barrel to 3 lbs or is that 3 lbs of rock then water/grit? I use a small digital scale so I can get it within 1/4 oz.
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Post by deb193redux on Sept 1, 2012 11:41:53 GMT -5
while weight is an issue for th emotor over time, with good rollers, this is not a big issue.
the key is volume, because there must be enolugh room for the rocks to slide (i.e., abrade each other).
weighing to the 1/4 oz is not necessary. Just don't put in an extra pound.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Sept 1, 2012 17:49:16 GMT -5
I use 4 TBS of 60/90 grit in my Lortone 33B. I run them for a week and then change grit.
Depending on the rocks you're tumbling, it may take many weeks in the first stage, so be patient. My son and I just got done changing grit on our tumblers and we had very few finished rocks. I think we pulled out two little agates from a batch that's been going for months. The other barrel has jasper in it and just got done with its third week. Nothing came out this week, but I took one rock out last week. I think a lot of those will be done in a couple more weeks.
I should say that my son and I are very picky about having our rocks as close to perfect as possible before going into the second stage. The second stage will not remove any pits or cracks. My moving rocks with pits or cracks into later stages, you also run the risk of contaminating them with grit stuck in those holes.
Have fun and try to be patient! I'm much more patient after finishing several batches. That first batch is a killer though!
Rob
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Sept 1, 2012 18:43:58 GMT -5
I have two 33b's and they run 24/7. The 3 pounds refers to total weight of barrel, rough , grit and water. I also weigh every load on a digital scale and have found that 1 lb. 9 oz. to 1 lb. 10 oz. or so of rough with 4 tablespoons of girt and water to the bottom layer of rock should put the weight to 3 lbs. 3 oz. or less. This also puts the volume somewhere between the one half to two thirds that the 33b instructions recommend. I also dump the barrels once a week and put in fresh grit and water. Be patient in the coarse grind. Most of my rocks spend 3 months or more in the first step. Hope this helps.......Ken
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electricface
starting to spend too much on rocks
First fish of the day
Member since August 2012
Posts: 211
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Post by electricface on Sept 1, 2012 20:18:55 GMT -5
I know there is the possibility I will grind this first batch to mud. I am a critical thinker...meaning I think all the time about things from like a million different angles. So here I am taking up a hobby of patience. So I have a lot of time to think and rethink everything I'm doing right......or wrong. lol I just checked my barrel and not only is it over 3lbs and was foamy. 'sigh' I cleared most the foam and it would appear there was too much water even though I had heard the opposite would be the case.(too little water w/foam) Don't know, I'll figure it out. I'm sure to have many many many questions in the future so thank you to all who reply. I am only running one barrel and saving the other just for polish. If this pans out I'll likely get another barrel so I can run 2 at the same time or just another tumbler. Who knows. So far I am finding this very interesting and fun.
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Post by johnjsgems on Sept 1, 2012 20:40:07 GMT -5
I used Thumler's not Lortones but never weighed anything. The volume (as Daniel said) is critical to good results. If your motor is too weak to turn a properly loaded barrel use ceramic or dedicated plastic as filler. Forget the foam, it will go away after first few days usually. As far as water fill anywhere from near top layer of rocks, some sticking out to at the bottom of top layer of rocks. This will vary with rock size a little. Also make sure you have a mixture of rock sizes. The small filler helps with this as well as it adds contact points. Picture a bunch of medium rocks rotating and grit contacting rocks where they touch each other. Then imagine a lot of small filler between those same rocks speeding things up. I prefer ceramic media as it doesn't embed with grit so you can use it in step one as filler and grit carrier then wash with rocks and move on to subsequent steps. Acts as cushion with later steps.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Sept 4, 2012 0:01:36 GMT -5
I personally go by volume with everything.
For my 33b, I put 1/4 cup 60/90 silicon carbide with just over 3/8 cup of water, even a half cup is ok.
I find that the really nice, gravy-like slurry is easier to get by starting with this ratio, sticking to 3/4 full barrels as has been stated several times.
You will need to adjust your measurements though as different material grinds differently and some may need more water if they grind fast. You will know because when you open your barrel if the slurry is like wet cement you need more water.
I also always let my barrels run 10 days to make sure I get every ounce of value out of my grit.
I don't usually find that I need less water than 3/8 cup.
I was frustrated for a long time because the Lortone instructions had me adding so much water it never seemed to slurry up.
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electricface
starting to spend too much on rocks
First fish of the day
Member since August 2012
Posts: 211
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Post by electricface on Sept 7, 2012 8:56:30 GMT -5
Well the more I read and the more I hear I probably have too much water in mine again. I suppose it's OK as I'll be checking progress in a few days and can adjust then if needed. As far as the instructions that came with the tumbler I asked lots b4 I started so I knew at least a little what I was up against. Still yet, I know just enough to be dangerous! No leaks or exploding barrels though. I'm sure that is a good sign. I ran my first cycle 8 days and poured off some slurry added stones, added 60/90 1 1/2 tbs i think, and added more water lol. I think it weighed 3.5lbs in the end but I am running it anyway cause I'm only running one barrel on it right now I figured that would be fine. If anyone thinks it's not OK let me know and let me know why. After I may need the info.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Sept 7, 2012 12:12:58 GMT -5
Let it go a day or two, then pick up the barrel like a beer can and slosh it a little. If it seems like iced tea and ice you probably should drain it a bit. If it feels like a thick milkshake and doesn't really slop around much unless you really shake it you probably need more water.
If, however, it seems to be kind of loose and you can hear rocks rattling, but not like ice in tea, you should probably put it back on the tumbler and let it go a good 10 days.
If you can take photos when you open it, clean it, charge it etc. you can probably get some more helpful feedback because it can be based on what we all see.
Once you clean next time, pick a recipe, any recipe, and stick with it for a while. The more experimentation you do at this stage of learning, without having done several full passes following someone's instructions, the more moving parts you are trying to understand and you are possibly introducing new problems without realizing it.
Hang in there, it will start coming together.
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Post by shereechalfanttroy on Mar 20, 2014 9:54:06 GMT -5
I know there is the possibility I will grind this first batch to mud. I am a critical thinker...meaning I think all the time about things from like a million different angles. So here I am taking up a hobby of patience. So I have a lot of time to think and rethink everything I'm doing right......or wrong. lol I just checked my barrel and not only is it over 3lbs and was foamy. Yep, this is my dilemma as well. Foam. Lots of foam. Soooo much foam it's causing the bottom of the tumbler to bulge. Yes I'm a newbie BUT like electricface I'm a critical thinker. I read and re-read the instructions mentally visualizing what would take place during each phase of tumbling. I burped my first load when instructed....but the foam threw me off. So I scooped the excess out and resealed it. Five days later I checked it—thank goodness—because the foam was ready to overflow. So I scooped it off again. After about eight days I opened it again. Foam. This time I peeked at a few stones which seemed smoother. I decided to rinse the load, discard the old slurry and start again with 60/90. And again I was very careful to fill the tumbler properly, measured the grit, EVEN ADDED a TABLESPOON of baking soda. That'll do the trick I thought.... Next day.....NEXT DAY I noticed the bottom bulging. Here we go again. The tumbler is sitting open now and I'm online trying to figure out this foam thing! I'll try some Borax but in the meantime can anyone share some tips? Thanks, Sheree
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Mar 20, 2014 10:22:28 GMT -5
1 thing to remember about using a rolling tumbler is that it takes time to build up the slurry that you need for the tumbling to actually happen!! When I clean out my tumblers I dump it all into a lg tray and set it out in the sun to evaporate, then take what is left, and break it up and put it in a plastic jar. Next time I do a rough batch I add 1 heaping spoonful of this powder to the mix in place of or in addition to the grit used for tumbling. This mix is basically dried and broken down grit & rock powder (mud). When added to the tumbler it creates the slurry that slows the rocks tumbling action and helps promote sliding instead of rolling in the tumbler which is the key to tumbling rock. This can only be used for the 1st stage of tumbling as it is course grit and will contaminate any other stage, although if you really wanted to take the time you could keep separate jars for later stages, but not for pre-polish & polish stages. I always have at least 2-3 pounds of it in an old pretzel jar to add to my tumbler, and yes, it does make a difference because it removes about 3-4 days of tumbling time, because you will have your slurry the first day so the rock will begin to smooth that much sooner and your grit can last a little longer/be more productive for the time it is in there!!
And shereechalfanttroy, foam is not a bad thing, nor is the cause of the bulge. The bulge is gas trapped in the rock and released by the tumbling action, at least that's how it was explained to me. The foam, however, contains grit and if you remove it you are removing grit and will slow down the tumbling action causing it to take longer for the tumbler to do its job. I always have foam build up in my tumblers and don't worry about it until clean out. You can try using a couple drops of anti-foaming detergent in your tumbler, but I have never found the stuff near me so don't use it, but then I have not had bulging issues either. If you're water is hard it can also cause the bulging as the mineral content may have a lot of gas/air trapped in it that would be released during tumbling.
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stephent
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 213
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Post by stephent on Mar 20, 2014 10:43:03 GMT -5
Automatic dish washing soap has plenty of "de-foamers" and "surfectants" (helps keep stuff in suspension..ie.."in mud") built in and it's borax based. It *won't* get rid of all the gas pressure inside the barrel if the gas is coming from inside the stones...burping the barrel will. As few barrels as I have tumbled...I have had to babysit 2 barrels full. One brought the need to watch closer by puking everything! all over the tumbler (my Thumler of course) and lodging a couple of stones under the drive pulley..and locking the rig up good! ..well bad anyway. But the motor and all is fine once I cleaned everything up. I think some types of rocks are spoiled just want more attention. :/
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Post by parfive on Mar 20, 2014 11:16:05 GMT -5
” EVEN ADDED a TABLESPOON of baking soda. .....NEXT DAY I noticed the bottom bulging.” ”. . . foam is not a bad thing, nor is the cause of the bulge. The bulge is gas trapped in the rock and released by the tumbling action . . ” Doubt it. Not when you put a tbsp. of baking soda in there. Guaranteed no heartburn in the barrel, though. : )
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