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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 17:58:18 GMT -5
It reacted to the Republicans maintaining a majority in the House. It was looking so good last nite for a clean sweep. Too bad.
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Nov 7, 2012 18:04:14 GMT -5
Why Stocks May Keep Falling: 'The Sugar High Will End' Investors cast their own vote on the presidential race Wednesday, and the result was a landslide rout that could have lasting repercussions beyond Tuesday's results. A day after President Barack Obama stormed past Republican challenger Mitt Romney, the stock market sent a clear message: There's still a lot more to do than win a campaign. Market experts said a confluence of factors are poised to make for a difficult environment that could last well into 2013, which traditionally would be a slow year outside of all the present headwinds. Theories abounded on why the market tumbled. They ranged from worries over the "fiscal cliff" of tax increases and spending cuts, as well as troubles in Europe, a slowdown in the U.S. and questions over the efficiency and effects of Federal Reserve policy. (Read More: For Investors, More Fed Easing, Cliff ‘Heart Attack’) More broadly, the aggressive sell-off came as little surprise considering the array of challenges Obama faces in his second term and the record of infighting between the White House and Congress. www.cnbc.com/id/49728143------------------------------------------- After Obama's re-election, financial stocks cringe NEW YORK (AP) -- Financial stocks are less than enthusiastic about an Obama second term. U.S. stocks plunged across the board on Wednesday, the day after President Barack Obama was decisively re-elected. But no segment of the market was hit harder than the financial industry. Financial stocks in the Standard & Poor's 500 were down more than 3 percent around midday, worse than any of the other nine stock categories in the S&P. The concerns that plagued stocks broadly - looming government spending cuts and tax increases, a deepening recession gripping Europe - are especially hard on banks and other financial firms. Obama's re-election also has a direct impact on banks: - It gives Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke an implicit OK to hold interest rates at record lows. Mitt Romney, the Republican challenger, had suggested replacing Bernanke. hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BANKS_SECTOR_SNAP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-07-13-16-08
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Nov 7, 2012 18:21:21 GMT -5
Here's something else for you to chew on: Many of the people we know that have businesses are now talking about laying off employees & cutting hours. Instead of full time employees they will now be part timers. We ourselves as business owners will no longer let a payroll company do our payroll as that makes us part of a very large organization & therefore responsible to provide insurance for our employees. That would sink us! Been hard enough as it is! We will now do our own payroll & taxes. My sister went to the Dr. today & he is faced with the same situation. No more hiring, but he will have to lay off some of his employees he has now. You will be seeing & hearing a lot of this.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 7, 2012 18:21:31 GMT -5
Snuff: DOW dropped 313, worst drop in a year. In contrast to Helen's comment which is another dose of Democratic propaganda, market analysts blame it mainly on uncertainty and worries that Obama can't handle the problems facing him, fiscal cliff, reduction in jobs waiting to be filled, economic growth problems in Europe, weakening dollar, high unemployment and weak economic growth here. In addition, the worst losses were in the non green energy sector like coal etc which we know Obama hates and his administration has new regulations coming of course, after the election just like his raid on medicare which was also forestalled on a temporary basis until after he got re elected.....Mel
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Nov 7, 2012 18:29:18 GMT -5
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Nov 7, 2012 18:30:19 GMT -5
Wonder what kind of deals he will be making with his buddy in Russia?
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Nov 7, 2012 18:36:20 GMT -5
This article came out last Thursday, I'll bet this will exponentially increase now the plunderer-in-chief has four more years. Looming Tax Hike Motivates Owners to Sell A looming increase in the capital-gains tax rate next year is fueling sales of some privately-held businesses. Many business owners—mostly founders who could gain a lot from a sale—are looking to close deals before next year, when the maximum tax on investment income is scheduled to rise from 15% currently to at least 23.8% on most capital gains, at least for higher-income households. Many sellers intend to convert their equity into retirement funds or just start anew. "It just made more sense for me to take my chips off the table and go do something else," said Bert Wolf, 60 years old, who has an agreement to sell his compressed-gas business, Acetylene Oxygen Co. of Harlingen, Tex., before year-end. Mr. Wolf added that if he waited until after the tax increase to sell, he would have to expand the business at the current rate "for at least 3 or 4 more years to achieve the same after-tax sales dollar." He is profiting on the sale of his business to Praxair Inc., PX -0.85% a public company. "There's a kind of a panic on to get things done," said Beatrice Mitchell, co-founder of Sperry, Mitchell & Co. Inc., a New York investment bank that is advising Mr. Wolf on the sale. online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204789304578088931525397120.html
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 18:50:01 GMT -5
Ok, world's going to end... time to move to Ethiopia!
I'll stay here and guard the chickens.
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 18:55:35 GMT -5
They can't convert them to retirement funds to dodge taxes, only $8000 a year:).
AND, short term sales (less than a year) are taxed at your FULL RATE.
So anyone dumb enough to sell their LONG TERM Cap gains to move to a SHORT TERM investment (only being able to hide $8K a year in IRA anyway), will pay full income tax at their usual rate... preferably 39%. All this to dodge 20% proposed increase on the LONG TERM rates.
I can see Republicans doing that tho... not the smartest sheep in the flock. The Deficit thanks those willing to donate 39% rather than 20% to the treasury.
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 18:58:46 GMT -5
www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-devin/romney-election-2012_b_2087989.html15 Reasons Romney Lost, According to the Internet Posted: 11/07/2012 3:49 pm
Until the next campaign, Republican pundits will be mulling over Romney's loss. Last night, at least a couple of them were trying to blame the natural disaster of Sandy and Governor Christie -- who apparently committed the sin of acknowledging Obama's competent assistance, even while he was tub-thumping for Romney. He probably didn't get the memo that it was supposed to be a 24/7 job, with no breaks for bipartisanship.
Romney didn't lose because of a tropical storm. The great majority of voters had already made up their minds by then. Romney also didn't lose due to a lack of campaign funds (he outspent Obama), the (mythical) liberal media, or because America just doesn't like rich people. All of those excuses are easily undone by facts.
The main reasons Romney lost (according to Internet buzz the last few months and in no particular order):
1. Personal Extremism Romney's views on today's social issues such as abortion, gay rights, immigration, the poor and the elderly do not coincide with the views of the majority, including a substantial number of Republicans.
2. Party Extremism The Republican party has steadily moved toward the fringe, not only in candidates (Mourdock, Akin, Bachmann), but in supporters. Whether conscientiously or not, the party has drawn racists, bigots, religious nuts, and those who use religion to justify anti-social, intolerant behavior.
3. His Backers Divisive figures like Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Mitch McConnell, and Karl Rove did not help Romney. At a time when most of America is hungry for level-headed moderation, and hoping for at least some bipartisanship cooperation, these narrow-minded, hyperbolic figures are advancing deeper divisions. Even Romney's celebrity backers, like Ted Nugent and the band Mustaine, added to the crazy, fringe element with talk of assassination and staged shootings. No rational person likes to be on the side of crazy.
4. Corporate Interests Many Americans do follow the money. In Romney's case, the massive donations from political henchman Karl Rove's SuperPAC, along with those from billionaires Sheldon Adelson and the Koch Bros. (who have spoken of creating a "conservative Utopia" eerily reminiscent of an Ayn Rand novel), as well as those from major Wall Street interests, painted the candidate as the rich man's puppet. What favors would Romney be expected to return for those billions of dollars? Exactly what legislation or policies were the donors hoping their money would buy? It's a question that many Americans, quite rightfully, ask.
And then there are the letters sent out by some Romney-backing corporations to thousands of their employees, threatening that they would lose their jobs if Obama was elected. American workers don't appreciate being treated as pawns and threatened, especially when it comes to a fundamental personal right like voting.
5. The 47 percent There are some comments that just can't be taken back or spun into non-existence. Romney's comment that 47 percent of Americans see themselves as victims who will never take personal responsibility or care for their lives was, to put it mildly, appalling. He repeated the line about "caring for the 100 percent" after that, but it rang hollow and untrue.
6. The Tax Returns The campaign seemed to think that Americans would forget about the undisclosed tax returns, but we didn't. The lack of disclosure only raised more questions. Was Harry Reid's information right? Did Romney not pay taxes for 10 years? We wanted to know the tax history of the candidate who was espousing tax cuts that would, according to all bipartisan sources, largely benefit the wealthy. Romney's refusal was like an admission that he had something to hide.
7. Paul Ryan Young, attractive, healthy... and yet so far to the right that the majority of middle Americans couldn't connect with him. His professed admiration for the tenets of Atlas Shrugged, his pre-campaign language of "forcible rape," his desire to meld his religious beliefs with law, the tax plan that only rightwing groups like the Heritage Foundation found feasible -- all of these things made Ryan an unpalatable running mate.
8. Flip-flops and Lies Romney's flip-flops were so head-spinning that not even a 19-minute video could capture them all. His outright lies number 917, according to "Chronicling Mitt's Mendacity". The Romney campaign's proclamation that his campaign wouldn't be "dictated by fact-checkers" turned into a seemingly shameless disregard for the truth. In the most recent debacle, the accusation that Chrysler was moving their jobs to China, even a denial from the head of Chrysler himself wasn't enough for Romney to pull misleading ads.
9. Flubs, Foreign and Domestic Romney offended all of England over the Olympics. He jumped on the opportunity to politicize Benghazi before all the facts were in. He disenfranchised the poor with talk of safety nets that aren't really all that safe, and diminished the troops by omission in his convention speech. His supporters complained that he wasn't getting photo ops for Sandy, so he held a campaign rally under the guise of a food drive. His VP nominee faked helping at a soup kitchen. There were many flubs in, by, and surrounding the Romney camp, a few of which might have been redeemed had the overall number not been so high.
10. Fox News As the country becomes more divided, and people grow increasingly uncomfortable with the level of animosity, the media darling of the right-wing is seen through less naive lenses. There is real fear, some of it founded, that Fox News is brainwashing a considerable segment of America. Fox News viewers are some of the least informed yet most opinionated television watchers. In the age of social media, Fox News has popularly become known as "Faux News" -- an entity to be ridiculed and reviled -- along with its viewers. Call it guilt by association, or not wanting to lie down with the dogs, but rational people, including moderate Republicans, are becoming ever-more leery of anything Fox supports, including candidates.
11. Minorities Most Republicans may not be racist, but as has been pointed out so many times this season, most racists are Republicans. And again, it may be guilt by association, but non-bigots of all political persuasions tend to not want to sidle up to a party where other members are hanging Obama dolls, creating "Don't Re-Nig" bumper stickers, damning immigrants, and talking about "self-deportation." Romney and other candidates had many opportunities to condemn overt racism, yet chose to stay silent. It hurt them.
12. Women The over 1,100 Republican-sponsored bills that have been introduced in the last two years to restrict women's reproductive rights were only the base of an iceberg seemingly meant to sink women. Fair pay was attacked by Republicans, and Romney/Ryan went along with it. The politicizing of rape into categories of "forcible" or "legitimate" was, for many women and the men who love them, disgusting. The fact that Romney has called for an abortion "prohibition" defies the majority will. That he would elect Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v. Wade is something many women fear.
13. Jobs In economic hard times, Romney's (flip-flop) statements on minimum wage increases seemed as Dickensian as billionaire Gina Rinehart's call to pay mine workers $2 a day. His speech about a Chinese factory with high fences -- where we know low wage workers labor for long days, six days a week, while living on premises in substandard conditions -- was almost slavish in admiration. Yes, America wants jobs, but it doesn't want low-wage sweatshops or a return to the days when workers had few protections and almost no rights.
14. Health Care Love it or hate it, the Affordable Care Act, now known as Obamacare, was an action that addressed chronic, long-standing public complaints. By a slight majority, Americans approved of this plan. Romney/Ryan wanted to abolish it on "Day One" with nothing ready to stand in its stead -- no comprehensive overhaul, no great new idea -- only some limited voucher plan for the old and disabled.
15. Gay Marriage and Rights The world is changing. The red states and religious right may not want it to change, but just like other gained civil rights they've fought against, this is an issue they're going to lose. There is no room for "separate, but equal" here, and certainly not for "marriage is between one man and one woman" dictates. Outside of religious beliefs -- which should be kept separate from government -- there is no compelling, logical reason to legally prevent two people of the same sex from marrying. Romney and Ryan chose their personal religious beliefs over the principle of equality.
Not a key factor, but the family is worth mentioning. Ann's infamous lines about "You people" and "the chattering class," along with other gaffes, such as comparing the missionary work of her sons with military service, didn't endear her to the American public. Neither did Tagg Romney's classless desire to go punch Obama. While it's a benefit to like the family members of those in office, it's not a decision changer for most people -- perhaps because most families have at least one problematic relative. That said, the Romney family didn't tick, it grated. Stories of $77,000 horses, multiple homes, and dogs on car roofs just weren't warm or relatable.
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Nov 7, 2012 19:05:41 GMT -5
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further brotherhood of a man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 19:13:50 GMT -5
Pfft, those market analysts are probably all white, middle class, black hating, german hating racists who voted for Romney. Right Helen? How silly, not feeling too paranoid are you? What's race got to do with market analysts? a 2.5% drop is not even a blip. A 10% drop is a correction. We were overdue for a correction. The market NEVER keeps going up, and it was already getting long in the tooth. At 10:30pm last nite, when Obama won, there was a real hope that it would be a sweep. We didn't know til early morning that the House actually was kept by the Republicans... and boom... gridlock, stocks dropped. Look at the time-line and the election announcements and overlap the stock market futures. My 'prediction' is as soon as we fix the looming fiscal cliff, it'll start climbing again. With the House still a Republican Majority, the hope everyone felt is somewhat derailed. Getting a working Congress was a big part of the hope and expectation. We were presented with a beautiful cake at 11:30 pm, Obama's landslide win, dug a spoon in and found at 4 am that we got a cat turd instead of a cherry when the news appeared of the Republican House Majority again. So, odds are good it will bounce around towards the low end until it's resolved. Hopefully this time Boner will do what he said and cooperate so it can keep going up again.
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 19:14:20 GMT -5
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further brotherhood of a man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. I agree with all that. What's the problem? Destroying the rich? Asking a man making 21 MILLION DOLLARS a year to pay 35% taxes, the rate that his SECRETARY making $60,000 year makes is DESTROYING him? Really?
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Nov 7, 2012 19:15:14 GMT -5
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Post by helens on Nov 7, 2012 19:15:58 GMT -5
Don, you need to stop drinking Koolaid.
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