Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2012 14:12:35 GMT -5
Interesting subject rocks are full of oxygen molecules... no ? I mean.. isn't 1 of the the chemical composition of silica --oxygen ? so as the rocks break down in the tumble the oxygen is getting released oxygen molecules having no where to go in a sealed container a build of gas results now here's the scary part if rocks only contained oxygen as a gas and pure oxygen is flammable well... I think you see where I'm going with a bulging barrel of pure oxygen....  As a chemical SiO2 silicon dioxide is a VERY chemically stable unit. It is very hard to separate the silicon from the oxygen and that explains why solar panels are expensive. The physical action of tumbling and abrading the silicon dioxide does not break the chemical bonds and will not release the oxygen. If this were true solar panels would be cheap. The other discussion about gases in obsidian may be under great pressure is valid. But this does not explain the gases emanating from man made glass. Man made glass is made without pressures. Jamesp experiment with vinegar is very interesting indeed. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,603
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Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2012 15:03:43 GMT -5
I am having luck w/vinegar.Having better luck with sugar and vinegar.There is not many chemical reactions that are not affected by adding baking soda or vinegar.The mix smells like concrete but nastier.The 3 cups of vinegar added to the open barrel for an overnite soak.Put the cap on the mix and got a vacumn now for 12 hours.yeah! ( This is coarse grind step)
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Dec 13, 2012 22:08:23 GMT -5
I have never tumbled obsidian.Lots of glass though.And you are right Scott,man made glass has no bubbles(not mine).You would think that glass is as inert as it gets,but not.It is always gassy.Have to try the vineugar trick on the glass.At least it is not so much of a moving target in terms of chemical consistancy.No telling what amount of chemical mixes happen with the variety of rocks that get tumbled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 17:38:51 GMT -5
+1 to vinegar and glass! Report your results here!
My glass run bulged without using borax.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
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Post by dillonf on Mar 14, 2024 7:16:44 GMT -5
Has anyone had issues with gas buildup with beach rocks. I've had 2 tumbler leaks with beach rocks recently - never a problem before with various river/creek rocks.
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jone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2023
Posts: 112
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Post by jone on Mar 15, 2024 17:12:56 GMT -5
I am tumbling the worldwide tumbling competition rocks (China Hollow Jasper/Agate) and I have had 3 barrels "blow out" (what a mess and pain to clean up!) in the past month. Prior to this I never had this problems and these rocks were tumbling fine until the first blow out.
I am using a thumler's AR-2. I tried a new barrel and lid but still the same problem. I will try adding baking soda as per this old thread but wondering if anyone else having same problem with these?
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hplcman
spending too much on rocks
Looking forward to my Friday Night Barrel Clean out!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 493
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Post by hplcman on Mar 15, 2024 17:34:32 GMT -5
Has anyone had issues with gas buildup with beach rocks. I've had 2 tumbler leaks with beach rocks recently - never a problem before with various river/creek rocks. Are you having this issue with the beach rocks I sent you? I have tumbled those many times without any issues... I wonder if water from different sources makes a difference with gas build-up? Slightly different pH's, or ion/dissolved mineral concentrations? I wonder if using purified or distilled water from the grocery store would make a difference? |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by dillonf on Mar 15, 2024 17:45:16 GMT -5
Has anyone had issues with gas buildup with beach rocks. I've had 2 tumbler leaks with beach rocks recently - never a problem before with various river/creek rocks. Are you having this issue with the beach rocks I sent you? I have tumbled those many times without any issues... I wonder if water from different sources makes a difference with gas build-up? Slightly different pH's, or ion/dissolved mineral concentrations? I wonder if using purified or distilled water from the grocery store would make a difference? Yes, actually. One popped after 3 days the other after 4. I was doing it in my Thumler's, which are lees stable under pressure. I'll put them in the Lortones, and that should solve it. I have city water that goes through a softener, so it should be basic - I think. If tumbler type doesn't work I'll try some distilled H2O. |
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Post by 1dave on Mar 16, 2024 10:17:47 GMT -5
I noticed how easily agate dyes. it must be quite porous. Who knows might be with it?
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Post by chris1956 on Mar 16, 2024 10:31:39 GMT -5
I typically tumble harder rocks and usually have the opposite problem. The ends of the rotary tumbler barrels get sucked in. Most of the rocks I tumble come from the creek on our property and tend to be covered with a lawyer of organic material from algae growth. I always wash them in chlorinated water and soap (but don't brush them) and maybe that is why they don't produce gas? However, last week I threw in some quartz (maybe 5 pieces) from an dillonf rock exchange (thanks) and all of the sudden the end of the barrel was bludging out. They didn't look very dirty and not sure that was the cause but it made me wonder if hitting them with the residual chlorine in the water and soap would kill bacteria. Not sure that makes sense because I use the same chlorinated water when I fill the barrels.  |
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jone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2023
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Post by jone on Mar 17, 2024 12:31:03 GMT -5
Tried adding baking soda and it popped within 24 hours. The other barrel is bulging.
So frustrating - I'm tired up cleaning up the mess.
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Post by Starguy on Mar 17, 2024 13:19:11 GMT -5
Glass and obsidian are not crystalline like most rocks. Glass is considered a viscous fluid. My theory is that there are tiny pressurized bubbles in glass and obsidian which release their pressure as they are exposed during tumbling. Tumbler barrels aren’t designed to hold any pressure so “POP”.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
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Post by dillonf on Mar 17, 2024 15:23:30 GMT -5
I typically tumble harder rocks and usually have the opposite problem. The ends of the rotary tumbler barrels get sucked in. Most of the rocks I tumble come from the creek on our property and tend to be covered with a lawyer of organic material from algae growth. I always wash them in chlorinated water and soap (but don't brush them) and maybe that is why they don't produce gas? However, last week I threw in some quartz (maybe 5 pieces) from an dillonf rock exchange (thanks) and all of the sudden the end of the barrel was bludging out. They didn't look very dirty and not sure that was the cause but it made me wonder if hitting them with the residual chlorine in the water and soap would kill bacteria. Not sure that makes sense because I use the same chlorinated water when I fill the barrels.  Interesting! I've haven't had that same issue with TX quartz yet. |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
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Post by dillonf on Mar 17, 2024 16:02:34 GMT -5
I refurbished 3 Thumler's a while back - 2 are still running. I've only had 2 leaks ever with Lortone barrels and they were both user error - I didn't seat the lid completely. With the Thumler's I've had 5 lids go (holes worn in the middle), and 2 blow outs. The blowouts could be my fault, because I repaired the barrels with a firm acrylic which reduces the barrels ability to expand and contract with changes in pressure. I repaired 2 barrels and both had blowouts with the river rock, yet neither blew out when tumbling moss agate?  Go figure. I found the Thumler's barrels require more routine replacement parts (lids in particular), and they appear to be more finicky and prone to leaks. That said, I like their size and shape better than Lortone barrels (Thumler's 9lb barrel is an awesome shape and size), but that doesn't compensate for their comparably inferior reliability. As a result . . . I've decided to order 2 45C barrels and run them on my AR2 base. The motor for the AR2 is the same as the one on the AR12, so it should be powerful enough. The larger diameter of the 45C barrels will reduce RPMs, but I think I will make them my quartz barrels as the lower RPMs should be advantageous for rough grinding quartz - reduce chances of bruising. Only caveat here is that my AR2 is from 1971 and has the original motor, so I may burn it out  if I do I'll pick up a new motor. Even with a new motor I'd still have only about $230 in it for a newly invented "Thumler's QT4545 " - not to bad in my opinion   Ordered the barrels, so should have it running in a week or 2. |
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Post by southernlakehuronguy on Mar 17, 2024 17:14:36 GMT -5
You shouldn't have any problem running those 4.5 barrels on the AR2 frame. This is what I have going...An AR2 frame in line with AR6 frame. I removed the pulley from the AR2 drive axle, removed drive axle off of AR6 frame. I bought a 5/16" aluminum rod and installed the pulley and 5/16" rubber fuel line on new aluminum drive rod that now drives 2, 3pound barrels and the 9 pounder with one motor. I also did the same with 2 AR2 frames in line, 4, 3 pound barrels are driven by one motor.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
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Post by dillonf on Mar 17, 2024 20:29:00 GMT -5
You shouldn't have any problem running those 4.5 barrels on the AR2 frame. This is what I have going...An AR2 frame in line with AR6 frame. I removed the pulley from the AR2 drive axle, removed drive axle off of AR6 frame. I bought a 5/16" aluminum rod and installed the pulley and 5/16" rubber fuel line on new aluminum drive rod that now drives 2, 3pound barrels and the 9 pounder with one motor. I also did the same with 2 AR2 frames in line, 4, 3 pound barrels are driven by one motor. Nice! |
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Post by chris1956 on Mar 17, 2024 20:33:47 GMT -5
I typically tumble harder rocks and usually have the opposite problem. The ends of the rotary tumbler barrels get sucked in. Most of the rocks I tumble come from the creek on our property and tend to be covered with a lawyer of organic material from algae growth. I always wash them in chlorinated water and soap (but don't brush them) and maybe that is why they don't produce gas? However, last week I threw in some quartz (maybe 5 pieces) from an dillonf rock exchange (thanks) and all of the sudden the end of the barrel was bludging out. They didn't look very dirty and not sure that was the cause but it made me wonder if hitting them with the residual chlorine in the water and soap would kill bacteria. Not sure that makes sense because I use the same chlorinated water when I fill the barrels. Interesting! I've haven't had that same issue with TX quartz yet. Yea. I am thinking it was just a coincidence. It didn't happen again after I released the gas. |
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iamchris
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2023
Posts: 722
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Post by iamchris on Mar 17, 2024 22:25:43 GMT -5
I refurbished 3 Thumler's a while back - 2 are still running. I've only had 2 leaks ever with Lortone barrels and they were both user error - I didn't seat the lid completely. With the Thumler's I've had 5 lids go (holes worn in the middle), and 2 blow outs. The blowouts could be my fault, because I repaired the barrels with a firm acrylic which reduces the barrels ability to expand and contract with changes in pressure. I repaired 2 barrels and both had blowouts with the river rock, yet neither blew out when tumbling moss agate? Go figure. I found the Thumler's barrels require more routine replacement parts (lids in particular), and they appear to be more finicky and prone to leaks. That said, I like their size and shape better than Lortone barrels (Thumler's 9lb barrel is an awesome shape and size), but that doesn't compensate for their comparably inferior reliability. As a result . . . I've decided to order 2 45C barrels and run them on my AR2 base. The motor for the AR2 is the same as the one on the AR12, so it should be powerful enough. The larger diameter of the 45C barrels will reduce RPMs, but I think I will make them my quartz barrels as the lower RPMs should be advantageous for rough grinding quartz - reduce chances of bruising. Only caveat here is that my AR2 is from 1971 and has the original motor, so I may burn it out if I do I'll pick up a new motor. Even with a new motor I'd still have only about $230 in it for a newly invented "Thumler's QT4545 " - not to bad in my opinion Ordered the barrels, so should have it running in a week or 2. Thumler's QT4545 🤣 And somehow I still know what that means. |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
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Post by dillonf on Mar 25, 2024 20:43:07 GMT -5
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Go figure.
if I do I'll pick up a new motor. Even with a new motor I'd still have only about $230 in it for a newly invented "Thumler's QT4545 " - not to bad in my opinion 
