bushkraft
having dreams about rocks
Public nuisance Number 1
Member since July 2011
Posts: 65
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Post by bushkraft on Jan 17, 2013 18:49:29 GMT -5
I should have added in the above post, that on average I spend about an hour and twenty minutes cutting, forming, grinding and polishing a stone, and a further ten minutes or so drilling and adding a bail, wire wrapping of course takes much longer, fortunately for me I pay nothing for the raw material as I have access to vast amounts simply lying around in the bush, that is one advantage of living in Western Australia, the disadvantage is that the places that I visit are very remote and the temperatures often soar to 115 degrees F ... not nice!!
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unclestu
Cave Dweller
WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
Member since April 2011
Posts: 2,298
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Post by unclestu on Jan 17, 2013 21:02:12 GMT -5
I have not read this entire thread so please excuse me if this has already been mentioned. I sell on Ebay though not cabs however there is one thing that holds true regardless of what it is you are selling. That is the pictures. You have to have the best pictures to be successful. I have seen great things go real cheap because of poor pictures and I have seen the opposite occur as well. Invest in a light box and some good lights you can get a complete set up for about $50.00. It will pay for itself in one sale. I have been toying with the thought of selling as well when I free up some more time. I think that I am going to focus on the material that brings the best price based upon demand for the material and availability. Why sell cabs of a certain material that is already in great abundance online? Supply and demand can be made to work in your favor. If you are going to spend X amount of time making a cab to sell why make a cab that there are already a huge number of fpor sale already? Just my take, time will tell as soon as time becomes available to me to get started. Good luck and good cabbingg Stu
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Post by Pat on Jan 17, 2013 21:23:54 GMT -5
Tela, I haven't read all the posts, but I agree with Hard Rock Cafe's post.
There are several very good cabbers on this forum; take a look at their shops.
My two cents:
In addition to your costs of goods (cogs), there is also perceived value to consider. For example, if your materials cost you $2.00, and it you a short time to create the finished product, I wouldn't suggest you sell your item for $3.00 or $4.00. Items at that rate are perceived as poor, or that there is something wrong with them. If you charge more, it is perceived that it is worth it.
Ask yourself, what would you expect to pay for it if you were on the buying end.
Good luck! Your work is truly lovely.
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blackout5783
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 248
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Post by blackout5783 on Jan 17, 2013 21:26:03 GMT -5
I have not read this entire thread so please excuse me if this has already been mentioned. I sell on Ebay though not cabs however there is one thing that holds true regardless of what it is you are selling. That is the pictures. You have to have the best pictures to be successful. I have seen great things go real cheap because of poor pictures and I have seen the opposite occur as well. Invest in a light box and some good lights you can get a complete set up for about $50.00. It will pay for itself in one sale. I couldn't agree more. Pictures are CRITICAL to online selling. When your customer is on the other end of an internet connection, they have nothing else to go on other than your pics. They can't pick up a cab/slab/etc like then can in person and admire it from all angles, you need to do it for them so to speak. I recently got a light box setup from someone Daniel mentioned in a different thread (Steve...something, can't remember) and its making all the difference in terms of quality. If I can get off my butt and actually upload them somewhere, I'll post some. All this being said, I am in envy of your photography Tela! Honestly some of the best I've seen anywhere.
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Post by stardiamond on Jan 17, 2013 21:46:19 GMT -5
Before I even consdered selling, I would strive to take a lot of great pictures and take notes about any flaws. I would next bite the bullet and sell on ebay and let the market determine the price with good pictures and full disclosure. I've sold sports cards at shows before and it's not worth it. I've looked at etsy and the prices can be either too low or too high. Less than really interesting cabs can be sold in small lots. You probably won't get much for them, but it at least rock was turned into cash. I've cut over 1000 cabs and I know some of them would get a good price and a lot wouldn't. I don't want to spend my hobby time dealing with selling but at some I will when I have moret time and less money to support my hobby.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 17, 2013 22:08:03 GMT -5
Well everyone, thanks for all the comments and suggestions and the compliments. I listed a few lots and I listed a few cabs. I tried hard to price them right. We'll see how it goes. I'm also still working on the best way to list pictures. Close ups are always good, but I worry when someone falls in love with the close up of a small cab and then gets it home- it might be a bit of a let down. So I want to try to get perspective in there somehow without having to hold it my hand. Anyway.... For photography- I used a variety of things over the years, including an upset down trashcan and cardboard box lined with tissue paper. When I could afford it, I got this store.tabletopstudio-store.com/ It's expensive, but worth every penny, I think. I've tried it all and this guy is really great. The shipping was fabulous and the customer service is great. I sold jewelry on ebay around 1999 or so. I began learning to take pictures then. I still think I have a ways to go. It's not my strong suit and I don't like doing it. Pat- I agree about selling too low. There is a saying- If it doesn't sell, raise the price. I thought it was hooey until I tried it. LOL! It can actually work.
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jspencer
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2011
Posts: 929
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Post by jspencer on Jan 17, 2013 22:27:11 GMT -5
Bushkraft at 115 degrees your talking Texas weather. I am not a vendor of any of my cabs or wraps or any of it. I started this as a hobby after I got a bum leg and could no longer work. I have bought my little bit of equipment on a super low budget and use what can be some archaic methods some might say at times. I know a lot of people shape a lot of preforms and toss them in a vibe to do the polish work. If I were going for volume I`d do that too. But I do mine all the way to 50,000 (if needed) with the primitive cabber and a spool polisher. So it`s a good thing I do this for just my enjoyment and making gifts for friends. I value them more than I could sell them for!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 17, 2013 22:43:37 GMT -5
I began making jewelry as a hobby, but ran out of people to give things away to. Everyone I knew had enough. LOL! I have have a stash of cabs that I just love to look at. I have a stash for hi end pieces and one for average pieces. I have a stash for giving away and trading. I have a lot left over even after that. I have far too many. I need a 10" saw and we're saving for a proper house, so if I can make hobby money and not take from my household, I'm happy with that. I'm not selling to get rich. I wouldn't be selling at all, but after my son and his kids moved back home, I needed to sell to support my habit/hobby. I actually hate selling. I hate everything about it. It doesn't come natural to me. I feel like I couldn't sell water to a man dieing of thirst. But, sell I must, if I want to keep doing what I love to do. Which is making jewelry and cabbing, cutting and collecting rocks.
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Post by helens on Jan 18, 2013 0:55:27 GMT -5
What a great thread, and some super insightful arguments!!!
I totally appreciate the problem, and your integrity in bringing it up too. I am starting to fill up on cabs myself... but I don't like the idea of selling them, so I don't. I actually have a real mental block about selling stuff online, make no effort to do it, and only post a few pix for trading ... which is odd, because I don't mind buying stuff online:).
But I'm with Daniel on the price dictated by the comparative value and quality, and not time and materials. Some of the most gifted things I've seen were extremely simple... and took less time, but had visceral impact. I've seen some hideous but elaborate and time consuming things too... which is worth more?
As mentioned, a master can spend 10 minutes making something 10x nicer than a novice making the same thing, but it took the novice an hour. Does that mean the master's work is worth 6x less in the same material? Good luck with THAT thinking!
I see that all the time in pricing advice... time and materials. What the heck. If you stink at something is when you will take the MOST time making it. Art is not hammering nails into a board at an x marked spot. The MOST inspired works are executed quickly in a burst of creativity. THE most expensive Asian paintings are valued by the LOWER number of total brush strokes. The faster you can execute, with the fewest strokes, the MORE the piece is worth, think Golf:). It's all about the inspiration and the layout. And even masters at something have dull spots that are uninspired and in those dull spots produce crap for work that are nearly worthless. Time and materials means almost nothing except to someone looking only for polished MATERIAL, not the artistry, and then cheap is fine.
This harks back to the famous Picasso story, when he scribbled a sketch on a napkin in a restaurant upon request, and when the woman asked how much, he said $5000. Someone said, "$5000? That took you seconds!", and he said, "Madam, that took me my whole life" in response.
As a compromise, maybe you can have a 'sale' on those cabs. Price them 'normally', then do a 'discount' for new inventory, slashing 20-80% for each. I've seen people do that before on Etsy... both as a homage to those selling full priced pieces for a living, and to get rid of their excess in one time clearance deals. That's for equal quality of course. If its clear that it's a one time event, it shouldn't undercut those making a living selling the same thing, because you noted in your listing already that it was a sale, not your regular price.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 11:37:55 GMT -5
A friend of mine used to work for a glass artist in Washington. His pieces sold for astronomical amounts of money. There is another glass artist in the same city making the same pieces of the same quality and he can hardly make a living because he does not have the name. It is the same as the Picasso story Helen wrote about.
In time you will build up a name that means only quality and you can charge whatever you want and people will buy. You may have to sell yourself short in the beginning but your work should catch on because of the quality that people are willing to pay for. Down the road people will buy just because of the name.
The part about "I am trying to make a living so don't undersell me" does not fly. Competition weeds out the people that either do not do quality work or are not business orientated. I know a man that is on this forum at times who makes a big part of his living by selling $5 cabs that he has shaped, thrown in the tumbler and glued on a little cheap bail. Right next to his table full of cheap cabs he has some beautiful wrapped cabs and other stone work in glass cases that sell for a hell of a lot more.
As I see it there are two classes of people buying jewelry and art. The middle class that has a few bucks to spend and the wealthier that will pay any price if they see something that they like and it has high quality. My friend is fortunate because he has a good business sense, the ability to make high quality jewelry and is able to sell them in the same location.
IMHO you should sell your lesser pieces for whatever you can get and your best pieces for a hell of a lot more no matter what you paid for this or that and how many hours you put in making them. The people that are looking for cheap will buy only the cheap and no higher and the people that are looking for quality will pay whatever you ask within reason.
Whatever you do Tela do not sell yourself short because you really do make beautiful art right along with some of the other top people on here. Jim
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 11:50:26 GMT -5
Looking back at some of the posts I see people that are spending as much time figuring out their expenses as they do making the piece.
After I sold for a while I pretty much figured out how much people would spend for certain items and started pricing accordingly. And yup, now I just pull numbers out of my $$$ by looking at the piece because I know how much people are willing to pay for it. Time and experience are necessary to hit the market. This is not the same as selling potatoes or mouse traps. Jim
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 18, 2013 17:15:50 GMT -5
You know, everyone has really good points -- all across the board. Now, if I could just put it all together and come up with a sure fire way of pricing things with all this in mind.
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