Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 22, 2013 19:42:10 GMT -5
In many ways I'm not pro censorship and I am pro free speech. However, we do censor pornography and age rate films for sexual content due to the supposed harmful effects they might cause for young viewers. I see no reason we could not develop a X rating for violence in media to prevent such material from being viewed by young impressionable viewers. You all seen the"Walking Dead" TV series yet? *L* If that was done the industry would regulate itself as most viewers are young so it would cut into game and movie makers profits and they would have to adjust content accordingly to allow them to keep the youthful audience that is their main meal ticket.
And, I'm not saying violent media is the only cause of violent behavior. As Elvis pointed out, there are many, but to call this sort of sensory input a harmless tool, is to me, overlooking it's capacity to cause desensitization to unacceptable dangerous behavior. It is indeed a tool to some extent but a tool to learn to do what, how to kill for fun, accomplishment and reward?.....Mel
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Post by helens on Jan 22, 2013 20:16:54 GMT -5
I think we already do... it's called PG-13 and R ratings for movies, and I think media and video games are rated for violence as well. Doesn't stop parents from buying them for their kids, allowing their kids to own them, and kids buying them for each other. The internet has family and parental locks also, built into the browsers. Parents don't activate them. Just like not locking your guns away from kids, and then getting shot in the head like that family of 5 just did, or the mom who got shot and then her son went off to attack an entire school of small children, it's the parents who don't think there's a problem. But the censorship already exists. This is the exact same situation as the gun control... should everyone suffer because some people have no self-control? There's MORE control right now in terms of media content control available than gun control. Violence must be labeled or rated. Parents can control what their kids see or buy. Yet... they don't. And the irony is that both sides point to the other side as obstructing, and limiting freedoms, when each has an issue that they want to restrict. Pornography is not illegal for adults, it's only illegal for under 18. Well violence is rated, and while not illegal, it's easily censored everywhere. Here's the software rating board ratings: www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jspNow if a video game is NOT rated, a parent can simply choose not to buy it at all. So why do they? I think the problems go way beyond legislation. Restricting guns, restricting video games, restricting movies, censoring the internet are all part of the same hopeful fix. Will they fix anything? Restricting First Amendment Rights are OK, but restricting 2nd Amendment Rights are not OK? Think about the hypocrisy of that position for a minute. Ban the POTENTIAL influence for bad behavior, but do not ban the INSTRUMENT of that bad behavior? I am not convinced that denying responsible people their rights is going to make a better society. There's an underlying problem that we are not fixing. And I go back to the mental health denial and ignoring that exacerbates all of it. Nerdy kids are the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates of tomorrow... and overwhelmingly, it's the nerdy kids who go for the violent video games, because they are the most computer literate. I have a lot of personal familiarity with this, because I used to play them too, and knew the others who did. I can go on and on and on about gaming, but I understand what you're saying as a total package of violent influences kids can be subjected to.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 22, 2013 21:28:07 GMT -5
Yep Helen, a system does exist but it is obviously not set up right, ie: No X rating for violent content. R rated films can be incredibly violent. "Walking Dead" last season on TV was perhaps the most violent series I've seen yet and the TV stuff is not controlled at all. Like you guys have said, parents need to do the censoring in these cases but heck, parenting these days is often pretty iffy.
It's funny to me how the government gets all up in our business on medical care, on food, cigarettes. booze, guns , car safety and fuel requirements, carbon footprints, even on the size of soda you can buy in some places but when it comes to the media they are mostly AWOL and I'm not talking any particular party.
Heck, I love a good hackemup shootemup film myself and don't even have kids but in the light of recent events, I'm starting to pay more attention to the content I see in films etc and I sure as heck know, if I had kids, I'd be paying a heck of a lot of attention to what they were watching and listening to....Mel
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Post by helens on Jan 22, 2013 21:41:43 GMT -5
Mel, I answered you in my edit above, just had to step away before I finished. There IS a violent rating for games. But it's not gamers who generally commit violence, it's the movie goers I think. Most gamers are VERY VERY VERY smart kids or adults. Overachiever types, not desperate frustrated types. There's a whole culture in every game, and the desperate frustrated kids do not have the level of patience or intelligence to succeed at gaming... they wash out fast.
This actually IS comparable to 'stalking' game... I'm no hunter, but I know that you can sit for hours and hours in a blind waiting for game to walk by as you cramp, get cold, get bored, get annoyed. Then you might have 3 seconds to set up for ONE shot, and if you miss, game's gone, more hours of waiting, and you wasted the hours you already spent to start over again.
Not every personality can do that. Same in gaming. Even straight shooter games require an ability to focus and COOPERATE. The biggest online violent games are like video paintball.... you are not only given a role in a 'team', you must perform it and be able to get along and communicate with your team. You are stalking and fighting other teams. It can be argued that in those situations, less athletic kids are learning how to work with others better than they ever do at school, because they want to WIN.
TV's can INDIVIDUALLY be censored Mel!! Nearly every TV has a 'Parent Block', they can just block violent TV channels. THAT's why they are different from when we were kids... Parents had NO control over the channels their kids watched, so it'd better be clean!
Today, they absolutely can. The question is why don't they? Of course you see them, you're not a parent and you didn't activate the blocks in your TV or Internet:P. But that all parents know those blocks are available, doesn't mean they USE them. THAT's the problem. And again, we blame the tools.
Speaking of Walking Dead... didn't you enjoy it? Would you want your ability to watch that show, and others like it taken away, because Parents cannot control their kids? Then shouldn't guns be banned, because Parents can't control their kids? What's the difference here?
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Post by helens on Jan 22, 2013 21:54:23 GMT -5
For actual reference Mel, here's THE most 'classic' of the shooter games so you see what people have to DO (you are viewing the scene through your character's eyes/plane here):
They are short games, played against other people online. Heh... bet you get hooked fast if YOU play Mel:).
Command and Conquer (above) wasn't on my list of games.
I played Starcraft - Starcraft has world wide tournaments, much like shooting tournaments. Here's a Red Bull sponsored Starcraft tournament, so you see what actually goes on BEHIND violent games (this video is not about the game, but the players):
Watching the 2 above will give you a very quick rundown on 2 of today's MOST violent, and popular video games. These kids/players are THINKERS, not depressed homocidal/suicidal desperates. And they travel around the world for these events.
They should be banned... like gun shows:)?
Oh... and this is an EPIC, and I mean EPIC!!!!! Starcraft tourney game, you can see the gameplay and the control panel:
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NDK
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Post by NDK on Jan 22, 2013 21:56:11 GMT -5
Crazy people can be influenced by many things but you have to start with crazy in you. IMHO this sums it up right here. It's not the guns, video games, movies, etc. Although I do agree that there's not enough accountability with kids nowdays. Nate
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 23, 2013 0:02:59 GMT -5
I don't think being smart precludes some kids from becoming violent nuts. Nerdy smart kids ( speaking from first hand experience here as I was a bullied, brainy, 98 pound weakling type as a young teen *L*) are often harassed and can hold grudges after all. Fortunately I turned out quite mellow. *L* Unfortunately, the American Psychological Assn says several recent studies have confirmed a link between folks who play a lot of violent video games and aggressive behavior. Saw a thing on TV news, not FOX, CBS I think *L* recently that discussed this finding. Being a science guy myself, I tend to lend more credibility to scientific studies than anecdotal evidence. I think it's certainly food for thought anyway....Mel
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Post by helens on Jan 23, 2013 1:24:44 GMT -5
Mel... are you telling us in a subtle way that you are a violent nut:P? LOL!
As for the study, I don't disagree that it could cause violence in some, but not all, kids. However, they can't mass murder without guns. So are you suggesting they ban one of them? Because isn't that the problem? Why will banning a tool solve the problem of desiring to do something? There are other tools.
And I know you are going to say that seeing violence begets violence, but consider the movie Psycho and the shower scene. How old is that movie? No actual blood or gore... but that meant you didn't know what was going on because you didn't actually see it? Did that cause mass murder? Did kids have access to assault weapons then? When you start making the argument that banning is a good idea for anything, someone else can and will make the case that they should ban what you like and what they don't like or need.
You like guns because that's part of your hobby. Some kids and adults like video games. Which do you think those masses of kids/adults in that gaming video above will chose to ban if we had to pick one? Oh yah... your guns.
And banning either one doesn't solve the problem at all, the desire to kill people and psychopathic urges. What it does is take the focus off the problem, and point at eliminating the tools to solve the problem.
And no... banning video games is even less likely than banning guns, because worldwide, far more people play them than own or shoot guns, and can argue that banning guns is far easier, because the population that likes them is far smaller.
Many many video games have subscriptions that number in the multi-millions. I'm thinking better mental health would reduce the problem a whole lot easier than pitting the 2 hobbies against each other in a banning competition that neither side can win.
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chassroc
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Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
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Post by chassroc on Jan 23, 2013 13:35:49 GMT -5
We are very much sensitive to nudity and sex, much more than we are to violence.
This echoes the principals of our society; we love violence; we praise the violence in our sports; we praise the athletes who would run into and through a brick wall to win and we allow it to permeate our existence.
We love weapons. we want bigger and better and more destructive weapons. This is America talking.
We want tough, not capable politicians. compromise is a bad word, even worse than the "L" word for some. We respect those who take a stand and hate those that make realistic sacfrifices.
When it comes to violence we take the cake and eat it too.
Charlie
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 23, 2013 13:35:54 GMT -5
Helen: Nope, I specifically said I turned out a very mellow well balanced fellow., with extremely high self esteem I might add *LOL*. Good parents, good friends, good teachers, interest in sports and the out of doors, choosing a good wife etc etc helped me turn out OK *L*.
Yes, I like guns and shooting as a hobby but I also believe in gun possession for self defense because no other portable tool levels the physical playing field better if you are older and slower, weaker, female etc.
I hate generalizations and agree with much of what you say in that not everyone is affected by violent media, but in my book, enough are to warrant dong something about it.
Anyone can mass murder without a gun. Oklahoma bombing, Santa Barbara kid who drove his car through a crowd etc. Guns are not the only effective tools for mass murder. However, they are the ones most glamorized in video game and movies. Well, I suppose swords would be too but you need to be pretty physically fit to use a sword effectively. *L*
I agree this is a difficult problem to solve, especially as we are inundated with the mentally ill as it is because these days many are released from state hospitals etc and many can not even get help at all. As everyone has said, this is an issue that need to be addressed.
Guess we've talked this issue to death by now and I have to go help a neighbor prune his fruit trees. later folks.....Mel
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
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Post by robsrockshop on Jan 23, 2013 16:16:17 GMT -5
I have x military type friends that had secret clearances that continually tell me that society collapse and zombies are comings.
Guns aren't the problem, 5% approval ratings of our gov't is the problem lol. Who would want millions of armed people that hate them?
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