Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 21, 2013 1:13:28 GMT -5
Howdy folks,
You know some friends of the younger sort I ride with said I should watch the movie " The Hunger Games". They said is was, you know, neat., and cool! Well it was on cable so I gave it a watch and was somewhat amazed that a movie for kids was basically a bunch adults having kids slaughtering kids in various and sundry creative ways in a game where the winner was the kid who slaughtered all the rest for material gain. Hmmm.This is neat and cool?
And here we have our politicians, well funded by their Hollyweird pals, saying guns are the problem. Well to me, the real problem is a generation of kids steeped, rolled and saturated in violent media. Violent movies, video games, music etc 24/7. How can children raised on this stuff not have it pervade their psyches and turn a percentage of them into desensitized, violent little monsters? ( And some recent studies are proving this true)
Now this isn't true for all of them of course. The football hero and the head cheerleader have a sense of achievement as do the excellent scholars and academic achievers. I'm sure they receive a lot of attention and adoration by their folks and their peers. Lots of kids who are not even smart or athletic still get love and guidance and support from their parents. But what about the kids that live on the borderline, maybe bullied at worst or ignored or ostracized at the best? Kids that never even get a single "well done"?
These kids go home and sit inside, often alone and friendless, ignored by their folks, in a semi dark room playing horrifically violent video games, watching dead teenager movies and listening to " shoot the cop, rape the be-atch or ho type music all day. And no longer do the good guys always win in games and movies etc. Now the high head count is the win and evil often prevails.
Sadly, these kids don't win the football game with a last minute touchdown, or get the cute girl, or have the high test score, or have a cadre of good friends. Instead, after hours of vicarious slaughter and mad mayhem, the only positive re enforcement they get is the highest kill score on the game board or the great fun of watching Bruce or Ahhnold, or any one of a dozen anti-heros, often of questionable moral fiber, machinegun, smash with fast cars, kung fu, stab, or blow up a body count of hundreds. Or heck, any other kid of mother raping, father stabbing, serial killer torturing kids, bloody event Hollywood can cram into a 90 minute film. All the while the bullied little loner visualizes himself as the hero and the football team heroes or some other poorly defined person he resents as his targets. The only attaboy he gets is the high head count in his fantasy world. He dreams and he plans and lives over and over the moment of fame and public attention he'll receive after he commits some atrocity. Heck, it excites him just thinking about the payback, and the shock he'll create among those folks he despises and blames for his problems.
Now I'm sure the military might get a little mileage out of a generation of computer trained remorseless little murder addicts, but those that don't find gainful employment in government sponsored violence, live in our neighborhoods. And, every now and then, they drop their video controllers, get hold of a gun, or a car, or make a bomb to use on their supposed oppressors or use daddy's ax to give mommy forty whacks.
I think this is going to be a real problem in the future and I also think the politicians are too much in the pockets of the media folks to do a thing about this. On top of that, many parents no longer provide the guidance and attention these borderline kids need. Some of these young folks are no longer even longer even kids or human. They have been conditioned to become weapons of mass destruction in a very real sense.
So look out folks. Everyone in the films just loves a good zombie apocalypse and it's coming. These zombies ain't dead on the outside but they are dead on the inside and a lot of them are coming for all the innocent, naive folks, who don't have means of protection and believe, " well, that will never happen to me".
End of rant. Blame in on me watching The Hunger Games *L*....Mel
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Post by Woodyrock on Jan 21, 2013 2:52:09 GMT -5
I agree in full with what Mel said, and sure as hell have no desire to see this movie. I even see paintball as a desensitizing activity, but then I played this type of game with real weapons. Yes, I have been talked into paintball a few times, and always get accused of 'cheating'. I hide good, and hit them when they are not looking. Woody
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Post by helens on Jan 21, 2013 4:22:45 GMT -5
Mel... that's a really good point, and I used to agonize about it...
And then I remember that I grew up watching Bugs Bunny ('killing' Elmer Fudd over and over again), Wiley Cayote getting blown to bits by Roadrunner, Night of the Living Dead - actually, I'm too young for that one, but I saw Dawn of the Dead, then rented Night of the Living Dead original. When I was young, I watched Alien... etc.
Is it worse today than when we were kids? It may be because there's so much more of it... but we definitely saw tons of violence as kids. And frankly, kids are fascinated by violence or they wouldn't be promoting it so much, even when we were kids. But the video games...that's a good point. On the other hand, I played video games since they came out with Atari when I was in College. I killed a whole lot of monsters... and players too. Did that make me more violent in real life? I don't think so.
But I'm still mulling over your question... because I have thought the same thing at times.
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brent
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Post by brent on Jan 21, 2013 7:24:40 GMT -5
When I was a kid I never worried about getting into trouble with teachers or police, but I did worry if my grandparents found out(I grew up with them). Kids today are untouchable and have no accountability. That is what I see as the biggest problem.
I think if all kids had to milk a cow by hand, they would have a whole new persective on life. ;D
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Post by tkrueger3 on Jan 21, 2013 10:29:01 GMT -5
Mel, I disagree with only one of your statements: "I think this is going to be a real problem in the future.....". I think you're wrong - I think it's a problem right now. And not just "a problem" - I think it's one of the most serious problems facing us today, and can only get more and more predominant if nothing is done to correct the situation. And, yes, Helen, I also watched a lot of cartoons in my youth, and Roadrunner cartoons were my favorites. HOWEVER - there was never any blood or gore in those cartoons. Also, they were CARTOONS! Today's images that many of our youth are so enamored of and engrossed in feature real people, and what the Hollywood and CGI folks manage to realistically portray as real blood and guts. And the more gore, the better it sells and the more profit is made, it seems.
I'm not in favor of a lot of censorship, but I do believe that there has to be a line drawn somewhere to reduce the influence of this visual gore and violence on today's youth. I'm not smart enough to know where that line should be, and I don't presume to dictate to others, but I support efforts to reduce the impact.
Sorry for my rambling - I'll fall down off my soapbox now.
Tom
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 21, 2013 11:36:27 GMT -5
My wife and I don't watch much of Hollyweird anymore..............We have a great collection of old movies..and sitcoms...No violence!!!! The video games that are out now are shameful and should be banned in my opinion! Most of the movies now days are stupid,its like they are reusing old movies to accomplish something and making them into gorrish films.. No class in Hollyweird anymore!
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Jan 21, 2013 12:38:48 GMT -5
The point of the movie (and the book) is to provoke the very reaction that Mel had. It's a cautionary tale about desensitization and dehumanization, especially in the era of "reality tv" and George Orwell's "1984" becoming more real than fantasy.
In many ways, it's a modern telling of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal".
Chuck
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 21, 2013 15:55:00 GMT -5
Chuck, Yes I know, and to a certain extent, every slasher movie, horror film, dead teenager movie etc is a cautionary tale. Unfortunately, I don't think many youngsters see the action and gore as cautionary any more than they see violent video games as cautionary. I think for them it's more titillation and adrenalin rush and, as with any drug, once your used to it, it takes more and more blood, gore and violence to achieve the same result.
Think of the horror and action films of our older generation. Actually, they showed little gore but it still gave us the rush and scared us out of out wits. Tame western shootem ups were exciting. Kids today, and even us older folks who have viewed the modern cornucopia of killing and mayhem look at those and it does nothing except bore them and us. Sadly, to achieve the excitement level folks like, all the nastiness must be constantly escalated. And unfortunately, kids today do not have nearly the grasp on reality we did. Reality TV where outrageous behavior becomes cinema and the internet where kids live in various worlds of fantasy including places like facebook where kids invent new identities, have blurred the line between real life and imaginary life. You all watched the Catfish series yet? Very weird and eye opening. Heck lots of kids today barely talk to or interact with others except through various interactive media. Who ever thought there'd be things like internet bullying that is so bad teen kill themselves over it. It's a different world out there today and to me, not a better world either...Mel
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Geoff
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Post by Geoff on Jan 21, 2013 18:15:51 GMT -5
I wasn't under the impression that it was a kids movie. It May be rated PG-13, but that doesn't automatically make it a kids movie.
Alien Vs. Predator is PG-13, so is Coyote Ugly, Hanna (a kid that kills people), Anchorman and Taken (Liam Neeson kills everyone and sex trafficking is the theme).
This is less a hollywood problem, more a bad parenting problem.
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fmelvis
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Post by fmelvis on Jan 21, 2013 19:02:01 GMT -5
So easy to blame movies. Has anyone ever seen any Indian Bollywood movies? Its all singing and dancing and real sappy love stories. They are all like that. All of them. No violence,no sex, no gore.
And yet a woman gets raped there every 22 minutes.
Mel, I think most young people can watch the Hunger Games and get more out of it than adults forcing kids to fight to the death. A good thing about that movie is that there was very little if any gore or blood. There were alot of good messages.
I guess some people can watch the Godfather and say its about a bunch of italians killing each other. And a dead horse.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 21, 2013 21:41:12 GMT -5
Elvis: Glad to see you '"got" the Godfather *L*. Man I hate people who kill horses! And yeah, Hunger Games was not particularly bloody but the message was well buried amongst all the kid on kid violence.
Culturally, the Indians are much like lots of middle easterners are where women are regarded as chattels to be used and less than equals. Kind of apples and oranges to compare rape in their vastly different culture to violent killings as related to kids growing up with constant exposure to violent media. Indians may be sexually repressed to the point of exploding into violent sexual acts due to exposure to those awful sappy movies.....Mel
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Post by bobby1 on Jan 21, 2013 23:00:52 GMT -5
What scares me most is that after all the hullabaloo, shouting, fingerpointing and such about gun control there will be little attention paid to solving the real problem - the borderline and full blown pschiatrically challenged young people who are easily persuaded by the violent movies and videos. The most difficult thing will be to have enough energy, money, attention and effort to sort out these disturbed youths. The first amendment severely inhibits our ability to remove them from the general populace for maybe (im)possible treatment and isolation. Bob
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 21, 2013 23:12:09 GMT -5
I think it started years ago in our schools with the whole "create your own reality, do it if it feels good" mentality. If it turned out bad back then you blamed your parents, now you blame an inanimate object like a firearm or entertainment disc.
Lee
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 22, 2013 0:35:35 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying Lee and yes a firearm is an inanimate object but I disagree on the disc. Media is sensory input, from the eyes or ears to the brain, in many respects like life experiences. Soldiers go to war and they see and do and feel things that are permanently imprinted in their brains. And to the disturbed or borderline individual who has difficulty separating fantasy from reality, violent films or video games provide the same sort of input. Police now use this same sort of training to teach officers about shooting situations. Both are simulations and many kids today actually live their lives and gain experiences through such simulation.
Look at the popularity of sites like Facebook where often profiles are nothing more than a simulation of how the person would like to be , not how they really are. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned, there is positive re enforcement and feedback associated with being the best killer in many films and games. Re enforcement and back patting these borderline personalities don't get in their real life. A lot of these folks develop an enemies list of persons they believe have wronged them or folks they blame for their problems, as you've said. It's not really a big jump for these damaged individuals to shift from fantasy to reality and often the improper use of drugs, legal or otherwise adds a further stressor and makes it even more difficult to separate the two dimensions. How often do we hear. "He was such a sweet quiet boy, but he hasn't been taking his meds lately" or the converse, "He was so sweet and quiet till he started using drugs."
I find it really not too surprising that a few kids or adults make the transition from acting out their violent tendencies in the fantasy world to doing violence in the real world. As someone else mentioned, parenting has a lot to do with it. A lot of these folks have been ignored or even abused for a long time so their own fantasies or those of a film or game become a place where they seek refuge, approval, and a sense of being in control. One of our members once mentioned the Manchurian Candidate" to me in a phone conversation, a case of a brainwashed pre conditioned killer hidden in our midst. Methinks we have a long list of candidates waiting in the wings these days.....Mel
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 22, 2013 10:57:38 GMT -5
Hi Mel - I saw your initial post, which I read because it was you. I have avoided the thread for the same reason I avoid the Life section. Simply, I would get too upset to function in the other rocks sections. I agree that the entertainment consumption of violence may be both cause and consequence of some less desirable social trends. For me, it is hard to know how to set up general guidelines w/o committing the violence of censorship, but I do think we need wisdom in the situation. Sadly I do not have this wisdom to offer. I would like to suggest that as individuals we might boycott (and urge others to boycott) this show: ( www.salon.com/2013/01/22/the_sadistic_the_following/). I took in the 1st episode and it was creepy and did not seem to have redeeming social value.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jan 22, 2013 13:47:22 GMT -5
I think you folks should take a step back and realize what you are doing. I agree that some of the movies and video games are over the top.
Asking a government like yours to censor these things is plain crazy. How far do you thing you communist president would take this? Look what he wants to do with your gun rights!!!!
Here is a prime example of censorship going to far. Our liberal CRTC did, they control what gets aired in Canada. Remember the song by Dire Straights Money for nothing. They banded the playing of it because it contained the word "fag".
You give Barry an inch and he will take 10 miles!!!!!!!!
The best way is to censor them with you wallet. If sales drop so will there way of thinking.
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fmelvis
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Post by fmelvis on Jan 22, 2013 14:38:35 GMT -5
Quackery and right out of the NRA playbook. Blame TV, Movies, blame liberals, blame parents, blame the media, blame facebook, youtube, blame Hollywood, blame Canada, blah blah blah.
Evil sick people have always been around. Some guy shot john lennon because of the " Catcher in the Rye." No video games, or internet.
Charles manson was inspired by a beatles song. But he was already crazy.
Ted Kaczynski was in Harvard at 16. Was a professor by 25. Was he turned into a maniac because of the movies or tv or the media? No, He was crazy.
Crazy people can be influenced by many things but you have to start with crazy in you.
I'm pretty sure some people have killed because they felt something they read in the Bible demanded it. Guess what, they were crazy. The bible didn't make them crazy.
You want to know what makes young people crazy? How about coming out of college 200,000 dollars in debt and no prospects? How about your parents being out of work? How about being bullied? How about your dad being an alcoholic? How about your mom being a punching bag for your dad? How about losing your home? Having to live in the family car?
This is the stuff that can stress a kid out to the point, not the movie of the week, or a video game.
Movies and games are entertainment and allow you to escape reality for a while. Is this dangerous? No. But if someone is clearly off his rocker, it might be. It could be a book that triggers his madness. music, whatever, its not the cause of his crazy, the crazy was already there, the music or game just brought it out.
The guy who shot Reagan wanted to impress Jodie Foster. Was she to blame or her movies? No, he was already crazy.
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Jan 22, 2013 15:08:25 GMT -5
Well put Elvis
Everybody wants an excuse...wants to blame someone or something
Most of the time it is just the way we were made
Charlie
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Post by helens on Jan 22, 2013 15:23:05 GMT -5
Here is such irony... and part of the follow the herd mentality.
Republicans want censorship of music, media and entertainment. They blame the 'tools'. Democrats want censorship of guns. They blame the 'tools'.
Hrm.
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bhiatt
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Post by bhiatt on Jan 22, 2013 16:46:41 GMT -5
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