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Post by Toad on Jan 23, 2013 15:32:56 GMT -5
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Jan 23, 2013 16:10:56 GMT -5
I know plenty of woman that would be dangerous in this position. My wife is one lol.
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Post by Toad on Jan 23, 2013 16:44:46 GMT -5
We all wanted equality, right?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 23, 2013 17:37:00 GMT -5
*S* Judging from the women I see at the range, in CCW class and out riding, I'd say there are more than a few who can handle themselves quite well.....Mel
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jan 26, 2013 9:30:48 GMT -5
My view of it.
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jan 26, 2013 10:32:54 GMT -5
I know alot of people may think the above picture is sad. Its not. Think about this situation. Your daughter or grand daughter is on the front lines. They are over run by Islamic militants. They capture your daughter. Now they have her back at there base. They are sitting are camp all horned up. Their choices. That sexy camel or your grand daughter. The camel would be bypassed and they gang rape your daughter to death!!! Remember unlike your and our armies. They don't follow the Geneva convention. Or have liberal media to call them out for breaking the rules.
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Post by helens on Jan 26, 2013 10:47:38 GMT -5
They can gang rape a man as easily as a woman, with just as devastating consequences. Further, this is the technology era, when was the last time the US military had a 'front line'?
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jan 26, 2013 11:06:42 GMT -5
Don't have to be on the front line to be captured, Helen. You can have all the Barry drones in the world. You still need boots on the ground to win. Maybe Leon and Barry should lead by example. Have there daughter enlist.
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Post by helens on Jan 26, 2013 12:38:16 GMT -5
Again, where do you come up with this stuff? No one forces women to enlist in the military. But if they do, why should they get treated differently? Of course women can get captured. Men get captured. In the beginning of the Iraq war, a woman DID get captured, it was front page news.
Every major military in the world has female combat soldiers. In Isreal, they DRAFT 18 year old women to fight, and yes, they can be front lines. China and Russia both allow women to fight in the front lines. In the US, the military is voluntary.
I think the hue and cry about 'front lines' stops women from becoming fighter pilots. Why shouldn't a woman get to be a fighter pilot if she can do it? But once again, why do you care?
If Obama's daughters want to enlist in the military, and want to be combat soldiers, what can their dad say about it? Nothing. So?
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 27, 2013 3:21:19 GMT -5
I agree that they should be treated the same. So if they can pick up 80+ lbs of body armour, weapons and ruck, then doubletime it 20 clicks, engage the enemy, and drag a 6 foot plus soldier, 300+ lbs with gear 25 yards to cover when he's down without slowing their unit down I'm all for them. I know these women exist but are quite rare physically. Israel tried full integration into combat units for 3 years, now less than 3% of front line units are women and they are mostly medics.
Lee
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Post by helens on Jan 27, 2013 12:36:01 GMT -5
I agree that they should be treated the same. So if they can pick up 80+ lbs of body armour, weapons and ruck, then doubletime it 20 clicks, engage the enemy, and drag a 6 foot plus soldier, 300+ lbs with gear 25 yards to cover when he's down without slowing their unit down I'm all for them. I know these women exist but are quite rare physically. Israel tried full integration into combat units for 3 years, now less than 3% of front line units are women and they are mostly medics. Lee I agree with you there Lee. Women who cannot meet the performance requirement of men in the same job shouldn't get the job. I think that goes without saying. But like other men who can't, they should be allowed to try. They weren't allowed to try. That's the difference.
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Post by susand24224 on Jan 27, 2013 15:00:32 GMT -5
Geez. I would hope that the best *people* for any particular job are the ones that are sent. Some combat situations demand strength, some demand agility, and the list goes on. And as for the ivory tower for women that in reality is often a cage, perhaps it is most appropriate to let the individual decide rather than make a patronizing choice. It is certainly my choice to have a say in my potential fate, and I would hope that my granddaughter feels the same.
Hi, Helen!
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Post by helens on Jan 27, 2013 19:15:16 GMT -5
Hi Susan:)!!
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 28, 2013 1:12:47 GMT -5
Geez. I would hope that the best *people* for any particular job are the ones that are sent. Some combat situations demand strength, some demand agility, and the list goes on. And as for the ivory tower for women that in reality is often a cage, perhaps it is most appropriate to let the individual decide rather than make a patronizing choice. It is certainly my choice to have a say in my potential fate, and I would hope that my granddaughter feels the same. Hi, Helen! Susan, while your basic premise is true, it only applies to a specialty. One might think that the only thing required of a sniper is the ability to get into a good position and shoot accurately, a great job for my wife, she is agile and a crack shot. What happens when all hell breaks loose? Suddenly they are all basic ground pounders, there's no more forward observers or snipers, only soldiers working as a unit to stay alive and one weak link can kill the entire unit. In the Marines we were taught that before we were truck drivers or clerks or cooks we were basic riflemen, AKA grunts, and all marines needed to meet those standards. If the equal treatment is to be truly equal then All recruits should have the same fitness requirements. The lower requirements for women should be eliminated for ALL soldiers from day one. Lee
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Post by helens on Jan 28, 2013 3:29:23 GMT -5
Lee, if women cannot pass the tests, they shouldn't get to do the job, we all agreed to that. So if that means that 'full integration' consists of 3 women per 1000 fit to do it, then that's what it means. I didn't see anyone insist that there had to be 50/50. But those 3 women should have that opportunity if they want it. If they are fit enough to endure the same things as the men, when all hell breaks loose, they'll be as fine as the men. If they aren't, they shouldn't be there. No one is arguing that women who CANNOT handle the rigors of a given job should be given that job just because they want it. Right now, today, there are female marines. Beats me how they got there or why they wanted to be there, but there's been female marines for decades. They already do front line type of jobs, and they have been accordingly kidnapped and killed. They simply get denied the same type of benefits and medals the men get. That's not equal either. If they are already there, but NOT called 'combat', that means they don't get 'combat' benefits, but are still in combat. NPR explains it best: www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/24/170161752/women-in-combat-five-key-questionsAnd to answer your question, the Pentagon has ALREADY SAID: "At a briefing Thursday morning, Pentagon officials repeatedly stressed that there will be "gender-neutral standards" for combat positions. This could make it difficult for women to qualify in roles that specifically require upper-body strength. The Two-Way Women In Combat: Inevitable? For example, to work in a tank, women will have to demonstrate the ability to repeatedly load 55-pound tank shells, just as men are required to do. Infantry troops routinely carry backpacks with 60 or 70 pounds of gear, or even more. The most common injury in Afghanistan is caused by roadside bombs. This raises the question of whether a female combat soldier would be able to carry a 200-pound male colleague who has been wounded." Women who can't do that, can't be in those roles.
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Post by Toad on Jan 28, 2013 15:37:00 GMT -5
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Jan 28, 2013 16:23:57 GMT -5
Acknowledging that there are differences between men and women, we should also recognize that all men are not alike, nor are all women alike. If a woman can handle the physical and mental nature of combat, sign her up. We don't exclude people because of their sex, or color or creed anymore, although we do allow age discrimination in the armed services.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 28, 2013 16:28:34 GMT -5
I say good for them,military is military,doesn't matter if we are man or woman...
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