Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 13, 2013 16:24:19 GMT -5
Hey Gang, I am stuck on this rock and need some some assistance IDing. There was a bunch of this material I picked up recently where most of the material was ID'd from Wyoming, Oregon and Nevada. Still trying to learn how to ID rocks and did find some information of a material it looks like online. The Rock is heavy and over 6 in Mohs I tried to scratch plate it on the back of a ceramic tile and it just left a scratch dent. I didn't have any other tools on me to try and get a streak but the rock seems to have two layers with different crystal formation. I had a magnet. The magnet was attracted to the rock but only the bottom smaller layer where the arrow points too. The bottom area seams to have black flat like crystals that have looks shimmery. This is the magnetic part. I used my cell phone and a llouper to magnify the picture with my phone camera lol. The top part is a lighter green is lighter green with what I think is call radiant crystal formations. When I tried to ID it I got these results Actinolite Hematite Augite Magnetite Diopside Epidote When I was googling for images of the material I found this one called Radiating Dioside which looks like it but I don't get the magnetized crystal formation on the bottom layer. I have not gone through all the rocks but I do have quit a bit of this material separated. Just about everything I picked up from this sale was good material for cabbing and tumbling. This one just stumps me as to what it is and what to do with it. Is there semi or precious metals, crystals or other thinks to dig out of them or are they just something to break up tumble and cab? Thanks for all your help. Matt
|
|
Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 13, 2013 16:25:50 GMT -5
Sorry about that large picture. I uploaded as a 600x800 but it grew after I previewed it and posted.
|
|
|
Post by helens on Mar 13, 2013 18:01:46 GMT -5
Mattaya, that looks like seraphinite to me... I have a small slab of it, and it's GORGEOUS!!!
I've never cut it to see how soft it is, but google it, there's a TON of pix of it on the net. Get MORE of it!!! The stuff is GORGEOUS slabbed and cabbed:)!!! Even if it's not seraphinite, it's got the same radiating spikes, and that should cab really well!!
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Mar 13, 2013 18:29:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm thinking actinolite. Lots of it in the California foothills sometimes in serpentine and jade areas....Mel
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Mar 13, 2013 20:42:05 GMT -5
Yup, I'm with Mel. Actinolite. Probably Ferro Actinolite which is 28% FE. It would be weakly magnetic.
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Mar 13, 2013 22:33:43 GMT -5
I have a green slab of seraphinite with similar radiating xls. I suspect that is a feature of other rocks as well. I'll keep an eye on your thread to see what it is.
|
|
The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
|
Post by The Dad_Ohs on Mar 13, 2013 22:46:18 GMT -5
something very similar to this on Facebook that they were trying to ID and it came down to Mariposite. 1 lady stated that she was well acquainted with it as she lives in Mariposa, CA and has a lot of it herself. Even included the crystal content. So my best guess, as I have some too is that you have a large piece of Mariposite.
My second guess was Actinolite too !!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 0:23:26 GMT -5
I have hounded a lot of actinolite, but only from one locale. I have it in two forms. pure actinolite and that is covered entirely with crystal sprays all much much larger than in your image. The other as a component in tremolite rocks. The crystals are still macro in size, but only on the polished stone.
I am a newbie. BUT, I am going to put my neck out and say you have an amphibole series stone that may have some actinolite sprays included.
Amphiboles are incredibly difficult to define because they are a "solution series" of very similar chemically related stones. I believe some are chemically identical actinolite/nephrite/tremolite and others have similar chemical components but may have more... say... magnesium, or calcium or iron.
Take a hammer break a corner off. Then show us the break.
Then using the broken piece do a specific gravity. Show us the results. I am quite sure all of our experts will still be on track. Me? I'l be wrong. Watch! lol
As for mariposite? Nope. Wrong color green, wrong grain structure, wrong look overall. I have cut a fair amount of this material and am comfortable with this diagnosis.
Seraphinite? That is chlinochlore. It is one of those solution series. chemical substitution series I mentioned above. So? Sure could be. But isn't the name seraphinite used for showy, gemmy stuff? Maybe this will prove out if/when sliced.
|
|
|
Post by helens on Mar 14, 2013 1:25:11 GMT -5
Well, seraphinite is from Siberia, and he hounded this himself, so I know it's not actual seraphite... I meant it LOOKED just like seraphinite, and might cab well, because seraphinite does.
Even if it's not even the same minerals, the 2 material stones often have to be treated anyway. Either way it's gorgeous (and I have no clue what it really is).
|
|
Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 14, 2013 5:33:40 GMT -5
Hey gang, I spent a bunch of time tonight taking better pics, close ups, scratch testing, streaking, using a magnet and wool to test for magnetism. I also attempted a SG test. It's late now to post all the results but I am thinking Shotguner may have it pretty accurate. This is one of the most messed up minerals to try and ID when I'm just learning lol. I will catch up more on picture uploads and details tomorrow.
Cheers, Matt
|
|
Minnesota Daniel
freely admits to licking rocks
A COUPLE LAKERS
Member since August 2011
Posts: 891
|
Post by Minnesota Daniel on Mar 16, 2013 21:36:39 GMT -5
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Mar 16, 2013 22:00:33 GMT -5
Definitely not Mariposite. The type location for that material was just over the hill from our old ranch at the Pinetree and Josephine mine founded by John Fremont so I've mined quite a bit of Mariposite. It's a quartz-dolomite material with green fuchsite and black biotite mica and a few other minerals, gold included. Looks much different from the pictured example.....Mel
|
|
Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 17, 2013 22:40:52 GMT -5
I wanted to keep the picutres as large as possible so I decided just to upload an album that could be linked to so that I don't overdue folks internet connection. I will post a couple here but their are more in the album. I have never done and SG test before and attempted to but didn't have a good scale that does decimals with grams. After the math it came to 2 SG and I don't believe that would be accurate enough. I have a liquid SG tester for testing alcohol content and had the water at exactly 60 degrees F. When I hang the chipped rock in the water the meter would raise and fall back into place. I didn't know what I was doing so I tried to weigh the water then weigh the water with the chip floating then did the math and came to 2SG. Again I don't think this is a good accurate number. In air (sample on scare) was .20 oz Water filled tube without sample was 9.9 oz Sample hanging in water 10. oz did the math? ? ? .2 ______________= .2 - .1 .2 _____________= .1 = 2 When I did it in grams I got -Sample In air (on scale) 5 grams -Vile of water without sample 281 grams -When sample hanging in vile of water 283 grams Sorry, I have to admit I am really bad and understand math. Here are other things I tried. I chipped a piece off and saw a faint green type of round flat crystal in the chip. I took a thin piece of steel wool and it had very little attraction to just about all the rocks I had in hand at the time but not on all of the areas around the specimens. On the very 1st specimen that has the layer of black crystal formation on the bottom was highly attracted to a magnet though. A couple others did to but it seems to be attracted to the black crystal like formations randomly formed in the specimens. When I wet the specimen in the OP first picture with the layer that the magnet likes the layer that likes the magnet stayed wet longer. It held the water and stayed wet on that layer while the top half of the stone that has the larger crystal formations dried really fast. I was able to scratch the specimen really easy with a pocket knife. The scratch test also revealed the streak powder residue was a lighter white/grey and not really the color of the green specimen itself. The other specimens I took show the different crystal formations from the top layer as well as the other green and black crystals. I don't know much about how to call crystal formations. Its been a learning curve for me. I also added other pics with the crusts and other mineral growths around the these rocks that might help identify. Thank you guys so much for all your help. I wish I could of found an easier specimen to identify lol. I have about a crate of this stuff from the collection I picked up a couple weeks back which was pretty much all jaspers and agates with promising cab and slab results when I get that set up but these guys I don't know. I'm hoping to get a couple small slabs cut this week when I get some time in the work room. Hoping whatever this stuff is it shines up nice Thanks again, Matt imageshack.us/g/189/img0133zj.jpg/img189.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=img0133zj.jpg<embed src="http://imageshack.us/slideshow/smilplayer.swf" width="426" height="320" name="smilplayer" id="smilplayer" bgcolor="FFFFFF" menu="false" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" flashvars="id=imageshack/"/>
|
|
|
Post by helens on Mar 19, 2013 19:15:40 GMT -5
Well... can you slab it and try cabbing:)?
|
|
Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 19, 2013 20:28:37 GMT -5
I'm hoping to this week sometime. I manage the apartments I live in and don't run machines in the work room when tenants are home. My work schedule is eating up my day hours when I'd rather be eating up rocks on the blade (in a good way). I'm off now and heading to our rock club meeting. I grabbed a couple samples for a hands on loan too. I'm new to the club so I've been shy to ask anything yet. This is a good time to try
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Mar 19, 2013 20:34:05 GMT -5
Matt, have a good time at your meeting. Hope some folks can help with the identification. Looking forward to seeing your slabs and hearing about any id.
|
|
Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
|
Post by Mattatya on Mar 28, 2013 1:53:44 GMT -5
Hey Gang, I'm Back. Work has been incredibly busy the last two weeks. I finally got an afternoon where my tenants that live around the work room were all at work and I got some time with my new saw today. I have only used the saw once and was a bit nervous to cut but I came out alive and not bleeding anywhere lol. So a couple observations when cutting this material. There was a metallic odor coming from the stone when cutting but only a couple times while cutting. The majority of the time it smelled but didn't smell as metallic. The black crystal formation that has the strongest attraction to a magnet seems very brittle. After cutting it into a slab you can see how the metallic crystals in formation. The cutting dust being collected by the oil I used when cutting was a black and sometimes green color. When the blade was getting hot on the underneath part of the stone when cutting, there was more of an ashy grey like ash kind of buildup. I believe this was due to excessive heating of the material when cutting but could be the black crystals where on the bottom of the stone when mounted to the vice. I am extremely new to cutting rocks and may have been a little to heavy handed pushing this guy though causing the color grey from the mostly black debris from excessive heat. I have read to only use about 4 pounds of pressure on the HP saw. I was giving it more then that at time cause my vice pully felt sticky from time to time. I didn't have my light box out tonight so I have a few extra pictures in this post to help see different angles and such. This is the best image of the black crystal formation within the stone that is very attracted to the magnet. You can really see the layers from the bottom black, to metallic crystal formation to black layer again then to a dark dark forest green, Then a fibrous looking layer of green and black (Also attracted to the magnet. Then green forest layer and another layer of fibrous green black where the radiating web like crystals are growing on the outside of the stone (top) Wet Another view where with the black crystals that break off around the slab cut. Sometimes the stones gives off a blue-ish tint to it as seen in this picture. Thanks again everyone for checking out this mess of a material. I don't have the correct sanding disks to get this to a high polish. I do have some to get it up their to a semi polish but ran out of time. I may grind the edges down and send it through the Lot-O Vibe and see what I get. Cheers, Matt
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Mar 28, 2013 8:12:52 GMT -5
The metallic crystals definitely appear to be magnetite inclusions which would smell metallic. Most nephrite is high in iron content too. Jade nodules are often rust red on the exterior. As I said in your other post, there is a black jade with magnetite from California. Most jade zones are also rich in serpentine and actinolite as that complex kind of goes together. The jade can be differentiated from the others by hardness. It should not be scratched by a nail. If your slab is softer, where it can be scratched, you probably have a stone which is a combination of various minerals in that group (amphibole/actinolite group)......Mel
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 12:11:38 GMT -5
I'd like to know where to see this magnetite in victorville area. It's one of my target hunting prospects. Anybody have gps digits?
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
|
Post by Sabre52 on Mar 28, 2013 13:43:39 GMT -5
Scott: here's the info on the Victorville site:
South slope of the extreme northern spur of Sidewinder Mountain ( right near the Stoddard Tailgate show location) 34 degrees 40' N, 117 degrees 7' west. off Stoddard Wells rd about 28.5 air miles NE of Victorville, CA. Directly above the old Verde Antique Marble quarry. Material is described by Sinkankas as being mostly tremolite in compact sprays of acicular crystals grading in some areas to black nephrite jade ( very compact tremolite). A bad and steep dirt road goes right up the Stoddard side of the hill. ( I hiked it myself) Vein runs northwest to southeast for about 100 yards sandwiched between two bodies of marble. The jade and magnetite takes a very good polish if worked with care ( worn wheels and belts) On fresh diamond wheels the magnetite crystals will undercut badly. I had similar problems with the magnetite crystals in nephrite from Porterville, CA too.....Mel
PS: Most the older Desert Gem Trails or California Gem trails books have a map. Don't know how much material is still available. I visited the site in the 70's and with the tailgate show right there, I imagine it's been well prospected.
|
|