jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2013 11:16:48 GMT -5
Was thinking about cutting 3 cups worth of diamond segments off of bent concrete saw blades and from the local industrial junkyard and using them to tumble coarse grind with them.Remove quick with a magnet...Any opinions?It is about 50 grit...They also have big 6" granite well drilling bits with those 3/4 inch diamond impregnated balls stuck in them.I'll bet you 25 of those balls would wear out 12 pounds of agate in short order-any opinions?A lot of concrete bits being sent to the remelt,in the 1-2 inch range,for higher speed tools to get thru concrete.Atleast the diamond is held together and accountable for.I saw a whole pile of these going to the remelt www.granquartz.com/Pages/ItemProfile_Detail.aspx?ItemProfileId=103361&ItemClassNo=49Cut the ends off and throw em in the tumbler....Yes they are expensive but industry theows all kind a stuff away.
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Post by catmandewe on Mar 24, 2013 11:26:33 GMT -5
Interesting idea! Keep us posted if you try it.
Tony
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2013 18:58:48 GMT -5
Typical saw segments,40 of these for $80 incl. shipping China
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Minnesota Daniel
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Post by Minnesota Daniel on Mar 24, 2013 22:33:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure why, but something tells me it might tear up your barrel. I'm probably wrong though.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Mar 24, 2013 22:43:58 GMT -5
Not everyone has the opportunity to rough tumble w/diamond, at an affordable price. Heck ya, give it a try. Sure wish I had a boneyard like yours around here. Larry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2013 6:03:43 GMT -5
It may tear up the barrel Daniel.I know rubber is bulletproof when it comes to sandblasting and most grit...PVC resists pretty well too.I think that diamond segment material as it is called is mass made in China for their mass stone works industry.I am getting quotes.I found it for 50 cents per segment min order 5 units- size said 25 mm and 40 mm which confused me.The picture looked like a piece about the size of a half a domino. I know that Larry is a grit eater and i always have 70-90 pounds tumbling.I was thinking segments about the size of ceramic media or 1/4 inch balls would be best to reduce diamond to diamond impact of heavier segments...... Anyway,i will get quotes on 500 grams-a bit over a pound.Hopefully reusable for years.Four inch grinder cup wheels have gone from $80 to $10 dollars and have much thicker segments of 7 mm instead of the old 4 mm.Google diamond segments and you will see it all from China.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 11:39:15 GMT -5
I don't see why you would have to cut the ends off. Just toss them in and let er rip. The ground metal should be as easy to remove as the ground stone. Looks like a great idea with the way grit is priced so high. It will be interesting to see how it works. You are the IDEA man for sure. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 13:09:14 GMT -5
So, I have done quite a bit of research on this topic of diamond matrix, diamond segments. They are made of a matrix that is 5% diamond, 30% copper, 58% iron, 7% cobalt. This is a general formula. This matrix WILL scratch materials softer than obsidian. Of course, it will vary. For instance if the original segments are meant for granite, they will increase the cobalt. If for concrete they may remove it entirely.
I will be working on a a little "how to" and show some limited success in making diamond bearing brazing rods.
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Minnesota Daniel
freely admits to licking rocks
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Post by Minnesota Daniel on Mar 25, 2013 14:17:33 GMT -5
It may tear up the barrel Daniel.I know rubber is bulletproof when it comes to sandblasting and most grit...PVC resists pretty well too. ... I know that Larry is a grit eater and i always have 70-90 pounds tumbling.I was thinking segments about the size of ceramic media or 1/4 inch balls would be best to reduce diamond to diamond impact of heavier segments...... You are probably correct about the damaging the barrel. My thought was that loose grit caught between a rock and the rubber wall of the barrel is still loose enough to move. Diamond imbedded in steel though would have some weight behind it and with more resistance to rolling with the flow or just bouncing away. In my head I'm visualizing a heavy flat piece of steel with a diamond tip stabbing the rubber. Now on the other hand, if the diamond were sintered into little tiny ball bearings that rolled between the rock and the rubber... I have an active imagination That last vision though raises your concern about the diamond to diamond contact. Diamonds are cut and polished with other diamond. Diamond also cleaves. Diamonds are hard, but not tougher than sapphires or rubies. They way we use diamond in rock cutting never really involves diamond to diamond contact. Your idea may still be cost effective though, and I don't know how else you're going to be able to re-use diamond grit in a tumbler, so by all means give it a try if you can. Daniel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2013 16:12:54 GMT -5
This is about 2.5 pounds for $80 including shipping out of China.In about 20 days tests will begin. www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flexible-diamond-segments-granite-diamond-segments-marble-diamond-segments/319030_538467288.htmlI am a bit confused by the dimensions.These segments are for blades from 250-2000 mm and with blade plate thickness(core) from 2mm to 8mm.The diamond segment thickness is from 2.5mm for a 2mm core to 10.8 mm for an 8mm core.The segments in the picture looks like they may be 4 attached in thickness.And are they 40mm long or 24mm long?I do not give a dang as long as i get 1.2 kilograms of segment.If they split into 2.5mm thick plates that would be better.They must split to fit saws from 2-8mm cores...See how they look like sandwich of 4?Scott says they have iron so they may be able to be picked out w/a magnet(i'm lazy). After thinking,bet those are made to break into different thicknesses for various core thickness cause once brazed they should stay as one unit if multiple layers on thicker cores-hell i don't know And i am making an assumption that this segment has coarse grit since it is being used for a saw.....
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 29, 2013 8:29:07 GMT -5
Was hoping i had some more opinions....
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mtj58
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Post by mtj58 on Apr 2, 2013 20:53:10 GMT -5
Hey guys... I've been lurking around for a few months now and thanks to all you guys have already had some success tumbling....but I just had to throw this out there for the sake of conversation. Keep in mind I'm new to all of this! I figured I'd try this over the summer sometime, just wasn't brave enough to ask if it was a good idea!
I have often wondered what would happen on a small scale if you threw a small sharpening stone or pc of a sharpening stone in with a mix?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 3, 2013 0:05:28 GMT -5
I have been experimenting with crushed grinding wheels and am having pretty good results mtj58.I use a lot of grit running 16 pound,16 pound,30 pound and 35 pound barrels about 24 hours a day.I have a source where i can buy used industrial grinding wheels made of Aluminum Oxide for cheap.They are not quite as fast as silicon carbide grit that is most commonly used.They are 36 grit(coarse).Most sharpening stones are much finer,probably 180 to 400.The broken up grinding wheels grind into excellent grinding pebbles that grind softer materials very quickly.And hold there on with silicon carbide grit with agates.If you put 25 percent by weight i think they would grind a good bit faster than silicon carbide recipes
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Apr 3, 2013 11:30:31 GMT -5
What a thought. I was just given a couple good sized wheels, thicker than my grinders will run. I think I'lll visit them w/hammer. Thanks. Larry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 3, 2013 16:36:56 GMT -5
I am early in the experiment stage Larry.Those are actually 60 grit Walmart wheels,the 36 grit industrial are a lot harder to break and do not round off as fast.I get a 5 gallon bucket of 8 x 1 inch 36 grits for $20-about 65 pounds.They both break quickly with a heavyish hammer. I can tell you one thing,you can drag a tumble polished agate lightly across the grinding wheel and barely scratch it.Drag it across diamond segment and get a serious scratch. I am 10 percent by weight of AO chunks and the load has shrunk a good bit after 3 days.Added another 10 pecent by W of AO chunks today. But am thinking the diamond segments are gonna do a fast grind.They are in transit.
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mtj58
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Post by mtj58 on Apr 3, 2013 23:06:30 GMT -5
Very Interesting James...going to definately have to do some experimenting on a much smaller scale... Mark
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 4, 2013 5:27:10 GMT -5
A lot of attempts to speed up the process the of rotary tumbler has not worked.So i am not too optimistic Mark.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 13:14:54 GMT -5
Tim & I are using those exact same segments for rough grind on our sphere machines. Tim is already getting results. Five hours of running on a sphere hardly made a dent in the segments.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 6, 2013 7:36:46 GMT -5
I see the coper component in the diamond segments Scott on my $25 diamond cup grinding wheel on my 4.5 inch angle grinder.There is a good bit of copper.
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n8hounder
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Post by n8hounder on Apr 6, 2013 21:16:10 GMT -5
This is a very interesting and helpful conversation I must say. This research and development will save me time when I get bigger operations going... Thx james and all participating....
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