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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 15:14:39 GMT -5
You wouldn't happen to have looked up the other political figures for that:)?
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 16:14:36 GMT -5
Also keep in mind that it's up to the members of Congress to start impeachment proceedings... and in doing so, they will make sure they have enough support to get the ball rolling so their own necks aren't stuck out to get chopped off.
That's why Bush never got impeached for lying. If Bush went, Cheney would be President, and you'd have the puppetmaster as President with NO filter of another opinion in the form of Bush, who held the office itself.
Obama does not have a Congress afraid of him, I'd say there was a MAJORITY who would like him out, and many many many Democrats would RATHER see Biden as President, as well as many Republicans, because Biden has a 30 year successful and even admirable record as a Statesman, with friends and admirers from one end of Congress to the other.
More than any President in the last 50 years, Obama cannot put a toenail out of place... yet no one can impeach him, so where's the LIE?
And personally, this is exactly what I'd like to see... a President who CANNOT lie, because he's walking on eggshells every single day he's in office, with a 2nd ready able and willing to take his place should he place one toe out of line. The government cannot get better than what we have right now. Which is exactly why so many are pulling out the stops to change it back to the secretive lying we had before... exactly what they are accusing Obama of. Capitol Hill has always been the purveyor of irony.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on May 8, 2013 17:01:00 GMT -5
Helen. I was responding to another part of your post about the economy. Obama is an economic moron who has shown more interest in playing golf than in the economy so I'd not even connect him with such.
My lies statement was strictly about Obamacare. In that matter, I think Obama will be out of office before the real failures, huge expenses and and problems come to light. We'll just have to wait and see but as a dweller in rural America, and a senior, I think it is going to hit us real hard and already has to some extent. My wife lost her doctor, our insurance costs went way up, so much so that we had to give up our old policy, and it looks like finding doctors that take any kind of insurance is going to be tougher and tougher in small town America.....Mel
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on May 8, 2013 17:09:41 GMT -5
*L* Truth 22% of the time....Nice ! Partial truths or lies 78% of the time.... sounds about right *L*. Sounds a little low for the pants on fire though. Figure he gets a butt load of those anytime he talks about gun control...Mel
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 18:24:36 GMT -5
Helen. I was responding to another part of your post about the economy. Obama is an economic moron who has shown more interest in playing golf than in the economy so I'd not even connect him with such. My lies statement was strictly about Obamacare. In that matter, I think Obama will be out of office before the real failures, huge expenses and and problems come to light. We'll just have to wait and see but as a dweller in rural America, and a senior, I think it is going to hit us real hard and already has to some extent. My wife lost her doctor, our insurance costs went way up, so much so that we had to give up our old policy, and it looks like finding doctors that take any kind of insurance is going to be tougher and tougher in small town America.....Mel Ahh... you know, my degree is partly in economics. That IS one of my specialties, the way biology is yours. And I consider Obama an economic genius. I'm curious why you think Obama is an economic moron... by what measure? The more successful your policies are, the more of a moron you are? Our economy is growing, slowly, but lets compare it to Bush's depression. Was Bush better with the economy? Obama doesn't play golf even close to as often as Reagan did. As for personal stories about the failure of Obamacare... that's always painful. The fact is, well before the Obamacare debate came up, the debate about what we were going to do about DOCTORS was a problem... back in Reagan's time. We knew then that doctors were aging, and few young people have the economic incentive to become Doctors. When a nurse can make more than a doctor annually, for 1/8 the intelligence and education, we knew we had a problem. Doctors can end up owing a million in student loans by the time they graduate, and can work 24 hour shifts. How many kids want to do that, when the same intelligence can net them a job making 6 figures with a 4 year degree in programming with a 9-5 job they don't have to be on call 24 hours a day for? Yet no one wants to give kids a single financial incentive for choosing that profession over another 'easy' one that pays the same with no debt. Meanwhile, US doctors are aging and retiring. They have money, they don't have to work except as a moral obligation to their patients. It has less to do with Obamacare, tho some doctors will use that as an excuse because they happen to be Republican. How old is your wife's doctor? Bet she's not 30. How many 30 year old doctors do you personally know of? I think Obamacare is a far worse solution than Universal Health Care like the rest of the world has already, except Russia and China. And both of them are considering it too now... we'll be the last nation on earth where a broken leg can cost $50,000 instead of the average $300 because of Insurance company propaganda and lobbying. Obamacare fully kicks in Jan 1 2014. Obama will still be in office, so we will all get to see exactly what that means when it comes.
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 18:26:09 GMT -5
*L* Truth 22% of the time....Nice ! Partial truths or lies 78% of the time.... sounds about right *L*. Sounds a little low for the pants on fire though. Figure he gets a butt load of those anytime he talks about gun control...Mel That's actually a phenomenal record for a US President, who is constrained by National Security and every single department under him to NOT tell the whole truth. Gun Control? The President has as much control over that as you or I do. It's CONGRESS's efforts, 100%.
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on May 8, 2013 18:34:08 GMT -5
This is an op-ed from a Montana paper today. www.ravallirepublic.com/news/opinion/mailbag/article_2be02bc1-5e14-5902-aeaf-7fa1c375e2d9.htmlGun control: Obama record earns him distrust There are 50 million of you non-criminal gun owners out there who have been harassed by Barack Obama and his helpers. Their convoluted ravings claim that you can’t be trusted and stripping you of gun rights somehow will prevent gun crimes. Well, I’ll throw that right back in Obama’s face. We’ll examine what he and his lap-dog attorney general have been doing and see who needs to be reined in. Ever hear of “Fast and Furious”? That major gun debacle had the potential of removing both of those folks from office but our news media hushed it up. In a grossly incompetent effort to discredit licensed gun dealers, Eric Holder’s Justice Department delivered thousands of American guns to Mexican drug lords. Congress learned of this inexplicably stupid move and launched an investigation. And did Obama help them? He certainly did not. This president – who vehemently promised transparency during his administration – invoked executive privilege. He stifled the investigation by refusing to surrender documents. We still don’t know the whereabouts of those guns except for the one that killed a U.S. border guard. Furthermore, this administration has placed no emphasis on enforcing our existing and very workable gun laws. Conversely, they spend endless hours dreaming up new gun laws that they secretly know will not inhibit criminals. This duplicity has resulted in 300,000 recently joining the National Rifle Association and a nationwide rush to buy guns and ammunition. Does this portend insurrection? No. But it reveals a very deep, and well-earned, distrust for Obama. The ultimate aim of his group is gun confiscation – ask Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schumer. They have a bag-full of gun bills ready to throw at you non-criminal citizens. You need to defend yourselves and you might even consider joining the NRA to do it. Bob Van Gieson, Missoula Missoula is our most liberal city.
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 18:53:53 GMT -5
This is a classic example of blaming the President for Congress. Exactly what can Obama do about gun control either way?
I'm a gun owner. How has Obama harassed me? You are a gun owner, how has Obama harassed you? Propaganda rhetoric? Because I see no one harassing me at all, and if I didn't read news, I'd never know anyone wanted to on either side. There is no law that impacts me re: gun control whatsoever, or any changes I know of.
Holder's office conducting a misguided sting operation has what to do with gun control laws in the US? Absolutely nothing, yet there it is lumped together in that propaganda piece.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 8, 2013 19:30:02 GMT -5
"Ahh... you know, my degree is partly in economics. That IS one of my specialties, the way biology is yours. And I consider Obama an economic genius." Define economics, New York City economics or US economics? Obama-an economic genius?I love your sense of humor.At first i thought you were being an antogonist-imagine that.The economic genius concept sent me to the doctor w/broken ribs.Made my day.Still laughing Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/index.cgi?board=polit&action=display&thread=59630&page=3#ixzz2SkYvbFc2
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 19:42:43 GMT -5
NYC has had pretty incredible economic success over the last 20 years... I 'm sure all of you remember the giant hue and cry (and laughter) about NYC going bankrupt a few decades ago. It was a mess, with every contract controlled by the Mafia or the Teamsters, and bodies buried in the swamps of the Meadowlands with concrete boots (remember Jimmy Hoffa?).
It turned around. Would I call that a success? Oh hell yah.
This has NOTHING to do with Bloomberg's silly idea to reduce soda sizes, which I take to be a misguided effort to help kids not be rediculed and harassed (he probably had kids who were).
And pointing out the handful of stupid ideas a given politician has is like pointing to our own stupidity and bad ideas. If we were solely judged by those, we'd all better kill ourselves for our own ignorance, right? Yet amazingly, we are all OK because of the few bright ideas or successes we've had. Which do you want to be judged by? Your own successes or your own failures? And when you can throw that first stone because you haven't had any failures, maybe that's when you should be lobbing stones at politicians for rare mistakes too, instead of only noticing the mistakes, and none of the accomplishments.
Obama has reduced more federal spending GROWTH than any President this Century. You can verify this yourself. Besides Bill Clinton, few Presidents have done so much with so little, while fighting 2 wars coming into office.
Actually, it's historical because no President has ever tried to reduce spending while fighting 2 simultaneous wars with ALL our own money (most wars are partly funded by other nations). That accomplishment is astounding.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on May 8, 2013 19:58:10 GMT -5
*L* Helen, Obama has not always been president. However, he has consistently lied about his stance on guns as proven by his voting record "before" he was the Prez.
And aye God girl you have awesomely low standards. *L* "Economic genius" Good Lord!
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on May 8, 2013 20:14:05 GMT -5
Yup,
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
― Margaret Thatcher
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 8, 2013 20:20:30 GMT -5
Helen,i want you to switch to Pace picante sauce before it's too late....
Margaret Thatcher is the genius,Obama is the spending socialist
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on May 8, 2013 20:33:47 GMT -5
Hmm Helen, I thought you were a poly sci gal.
You know I've only had meager economic training and hire a guy to do that stuff for me but to me indications of economic genius do not include:
Increasing the deficit by trillions and proposing trillions more in increases. " What me worry" We can spend ourselves into prosperity.
Damaging businesses by over regulation, Obamacare laws, increased taxation, increased energy costs etc. and encouraging class warfare and supporting parasitic unions. Picking winners and losers for political reasons.
Thinking you can add millions and millions of folks to a medical care pool and not have costs go up or have medical care rationed.
Encouraging more and more folks to go into an often abused food stamp program that costs us billions more in tax dollars., yet demeaning and trying to punish successful folks.
Allowing the fed to go wild when they "should be regulated" and audited.
And continuing to overspend money you do not have and not submitting a balanced budget every gulldarned year.
Oh yeah, the Prez is a freaking economic genius! Not!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 21:22:19 GMT -5
So com'on Scott... what IS your point? Obama lies. You can't give a single verifiable example of his lying, because it is not 'transparent'. Yet you know he is lying. How? Why? What? Where? When? Helen, once again, you use liberal tactics to obfuscate the discussion. I never said I 'KNOW" he lies. I said I BELIEVE he lies. That amiga, is not refutable. Besides, it's moot. You stipulated that ALL presidents lie. Your hero is the president, so he must be a liar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 21:39:27 GMT -5
Mel;
RE: BHO being an economic genius
I have to agree with Helen. And you will too. Let me explain.
You think he is an idiot for all of the reasons stated. Budget deficit, business regulation, taxation and more .....
When you think those are bad things then of course he is an idiot.
Please now consider that his economic goal is his own. Not the country's, not the taxpayers, but solely his own (and that of his cronys). He cannot just steal the money from hard working Americans and directly put it in his pockets. No. That is illegal. He needs to find a legal way to do that. This is where the genius comes in.
He found that way.
All the TARP and other federal moneys to bail out banks and other cronys (Solyndra et al) have made all the right people far wealthier. So has all the shenanigans at the fed. Giving money to banks, borrowing it back from them and paying them interest is pure genius.
2016 rolls around and he will then hit the speaker circuit. I predict here and now that he will be the highest paid speaker ever in the history of the universe. $1,000,000 to speak at a dinner. $2,500,000 to speak at a corporate retreat. $5,000,000 to play a round of golf and speak at the banquet after. Tobacco and ethanol included. Travel and security picked up by taxpayers.
This is simply a small part of the money stolen from taxpayers and given to cronys coming back to roost with it's rightful owner. Theft complete.
I'll predict he clears $100,000,000 his second year out of office.
That mi amigo is PURE GENIUS.
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Post by helens on May 8, 2013 21:57:25 GMT -5
When one 'believes' something, there's a basis for that belief. What is your basis? Gut feeling? A butterfly told you?
Political Science = history, economics, foreign policy, diplomacy, international relations, linguistics, logic, philosophy, and even satellite technology and covert actions depending on the program and school. My degree is from Georgetown University, so my professors were former heads/Assistant heads of Depts from the CIA to Sec of State, to UN, and Ambassadors in between.
Individuals don't hire economists, they hire CPA, a completely different field.
As for damaging businesses, all a President does is enforce, with zero ability to create/change the laws other than begging Congress or getting citizens to beg Congress. You guys continue to blame Obama for actions by the Republican Congress... over and over and over again. That's illogical... although it does make sense given that you elected the people you keep complaining about:).
As for adding people to a medical pool, when each of those people now must contribute to that same pool vs leeching off the pool that formerly paid for it SHOULD reduce costs.
If 10 people contribute 10 rocks each to a box, and 12 people take rocks out of that box, how many will each person get? If the 2 that did not have to contribute before suddenly had to contribute the same, how many will each get? This is common sense. What is not common sense is that Insurance companies are private corporations, and can compensate for that extra pool by simply paying each Officer another 50 million dollars a year. That's how capitalism works when you must pay a middleman for everything, and why Medicare costs up to 10x less than working people's insurance.
I liked Margaret Thatcher also. Very gutsy lady. However, while everyone thinks she's great for lowering direct taxes, she happened to raise nearly all indirect taxes.
Just recently, there was a thread complaining about indirect taxes (taxes on lumber in California). Taxes will be paid, it's a matter of WHO pays it. The difference between Republicans and Democrats today is that the Democrats want the taxes paid by all, whereas the Republicans want the taxes shouldered by the poor and middle class.
Since I'm part of the middle class and not the super wealthy, I want to see the burden shared by all, not paid for by my mom or my kids. I see no reason the super wealthy should get to deduct their 50 million dollar yachts, so I can lose the medicare and social security I paid a lifetime into. You guys clearly do, and that's why we keep arguing.
One of these days, your candidate may win and you get what you wish for... losing everything you, and I, worked our lives for. I never ever want the opportunity to gloat about that.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2013 6:13:22 GMT -5
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Post by helens on May 9, 2013 10:47:59 GMT -5
Cushy retirement, and a desire to do good for future generations James. Most political APPOINTEES (vs elected officials) tend to be pulled from Academia to begin with.
Teaching is what these people love, and from knowing them personally, they were all good people who wanted to help the world, help children, help the future of the USA.
They weren't 'high powered dudes'. They were very intelligent ordinary people who hoped to make a difference in people's lives, and wouldn't know what to do with money if they were showered with it. Real idealists, there are still some around.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2013 11:20:01 GMT -5
I saw that edit Helen S.
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