Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 10, 2013 21:26:50 GMT -5
Two maybe three years *L* Could be.
You know, what I find most disturbing is the government folks say, " Well, we're collecting it and saving it, but not using it or looking at it." I find that kind of hard to swallow. Like, are they just wasting time and money or do they have an agenda? Why the broad based data base instead of just tracking those with terrorist or criminal connections? What would happen if a really bad ( hard for me to imagine a worse administration than the current one *L*) bunch of folks take control of the government and "they " have access to all this information? What if like in some other countries they decide to confiscate your bank account, your investments, your silver, your guns, your food, your fuel etc. Having a data base in place would seem to be asking for that kind of abuse if the wrong folks got in control.
Maybe I'm just a little paranoid but I look at what's happening under this administration and then it ain't hard to imagine what would happen under one even worse....Mel
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Post by helens on Jun 10, 2013 23:31:09 GMT -5
Well you know what you got with this Admin.
In 2016, we get to pick our poison again. Good luck us:). There's always Somalia...
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 10, 2013 23:55:15 GMT -5
If they legalize pot, it is likely they will still continue to hold all the potheads in prison. Otherwise, the prison guards union will cry a river because they'll lose 60% of their members. So why would 60% of prison guards be released when they released less than 1% of the prison population? I don't have the national statistics, but in Oregon like 0.08% of people incarcerated are for pot. The numbers paraded about by the pro pot folks, just like the "cannibis oil cures cancer" claims, are pure fabrication. I am all for the end of the DEA and all drug enforcement going back to the states to decide, as spelled out in the separation of powers in the constitution (along with eliminating a large bowl of alphabet soup unconstitutional federal agencies) as long as drug users don't become the next protected class ("after all, I was born with a tendency to be addicted") and ALL employers retain the right to drug screen as they see fit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 0:00:15 GMT -5
Two maybe three years *L* Could be. You know, what I find most disturbing is the government folks say, " Well, we're collecting it and saving it, but not using it or looking at it." I find that kind of hard to swallow. Like, are they just wasting time and money or do they have an agenda? Why the broad based data base instead of just tracking those with terrorist or criminal connections? What would happen if a really bad ( hard for me to imagine a worse administration than the current one *L*) bunch of folks take control of the government and "they " have access to all this information? What if like in some other countries they decide to confiscate your bank account, your investments, your silver, your guns, your food, your fuel etc. Having a data base in place would seem to be asking for that kind of abuse if the wrong folks got in control. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid but I look at what's happening under this administration and then it ain't hard to imagine what would happen under one even worse....Mel Mel, we just got past an administration that was worse. Type in "katrina gun confiscation video". Obama is blamed for every little thing by you so why are you not blaming Bush for the people of New Orleans having their guns forcibly confiscated and the people arrested that refused. Even in an upscale neighborhood where the houses have columns. This was 2005 when your republican god was in office. I think you have an anger problem that you need to deal with because this administration is not the best but it sure as hell is not the worst either. I am still waiting for the entire world to go into a tail spin if Obama got elected. Watch a little news, things are looking up. Maybe we will survive until Yellowstone Park blows it top. I would suggest that everyone watch the videos because it is a show of what is to come. They are going to find a way to try to take everyone's guns and it has little to do with this administration. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 0:03:50 GMT -5
Lee, I believe that in some states it is much much higher but I have not checked the stats either. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 0:39:24 GMT -5
Lee is right. Norml puts pot related as 12% of all drug criminals. So, I fracked up.
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jockstrap
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2011
Posts: 56
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Post by jockstrap on Jun 11, 2013 5:57:48 GMT -5
The guy is a traitor. He gives help and sustinance to the enemy. The USA alerted Britain 130 times over intercepts that benefited UK Intellegence services. Long may the cooperation continue. We have GCHQ here that does a lot of Data aquisition. I'm glad they do, and I don't care what they know of my business. Big Business probably knows more about me than my Govt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 6:55:54 GMT -5
The guy is not a traitor. Our enemies know damn well that all this is going on. The people here with their heads in the sand are the only ones that did not know. Now, if we call those people that live in lala land the enemy then maybe he would be a traitor. A lot of the young people here have not watched a news program for years after graduating from high school. I personally know many. They are too busy playing video games or texting. This just stirred things up enough so that maybe these people finally hear about it. I am assuming you are a Brit and that tells the whole story. Ya'll do not care if you loose your freedoms. This is the USA and cinching up on our freedoms is a big no no here. We are not going to loose our freedoms. Most of us will die for them and we just may have to. The United Nations and the new world order are trying to chip away at them and there will come a time when we may have to fight for them just like we did a few years back when we raised the first USA flag. You have probably heard about that. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 7:12:17 GMT -5
I copied this. I think it is worded quite well. Jim
"Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled as they have been during the Bush administration. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. "
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Post by helens on Jun 11, 2013 9:25:01 GMT -5
The guy is a traitor. He gives help and sustinance to the enemy. The USA alerted Britain 130 times over intercepts that benefited UK Intellegence services. Long may the cooperation continue. We have GCHQ here that does a lot of Data aquisition. I'm glad they do, and I don't care what they know of my business. Big Business probably knows more about me than my Govt. Which enemy did Snowden give help and sustenance to specifically? While I agree with you that not all exposures are a good thing, what Snowden released should have been public disclosures in the first place. As evidenced by Obama declassifying the information afterwards. This is a completely different situation from Bradley Manning, who released names, places, dates, which could have harmed or killed individuals. No one was harmed by Snowden's release.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 11, 2013 11:48:27 GMT -5
Opinions vary.....I'm not for or against what this young man did..As for phone conversations,I'm rarely on the phone(hate them),if they choose to be listening,go for it! Computer wise,I'm sure they would roll their eyes and say,damn this old dude is boring! As for the political view point,we the people let the government get this way..Most Americans just sit on the backside and could have cared less what goes on in DC! Now the lids off on most all political BS and people are getting fired up!Why now? Should have cared years ago too,voted,studied,voiced our opinions on all political matters to your Mayors,Governors,Reps,Senators and the Presidents!I sure as hell do!!! They work for us,not the other way around!! They play us for a bunch of fools,we let them do it too,can't say we didn't either... This young man probably ruined his career,but I think he has had enough and blew his cork(so to speak)... Its his choice,its still freedom of speech and choice in America,as the last I knew! As said in my opinion,we the American people are to blame too,get off your butts and vote,call,voice your thoughts,email,write,let them know you want what is right! Don't just sit there picking your nose and not giving a damn about politics and DC! You want freedom,your better damn well stand up and take notice!!!!!NO PITY FOR FOOLS!
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Post by sandsman1 on Jun 11, 2013 15:21:53 GMT -5
hero .
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jun 11, 2013 15:35:56 GMT -5
I'd also say hero. If you see something going down that is just wrong, and you don't say something, you are just as guilty as the perpetrators. Jean
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Post by helens on Jun 11, 2013 15:41:57 GMT -5
Opinions vary.....I'm not for or against what this young man did..As for phone conversations,I'm rarely on the phone(hate them),if they choose to be listening,go for it! Computer wise,I'm sure they would roll their eyes and say,damn this old dude is boring! As for the political view point,we the people let the government get this way..Most Americans just sit on the backside and could have cared less what goes on in DC! Now the lids off on most all political BS and people are getting fired up!Why now? Should have cared years ago too,voted,studied,voiced our opinions on all political matters to your Mayors,Governors,Reps,Senators and the Presidents!I sure as hell do!!! They work for us,not the other way around!! They play us for a bunch of fools,we let them do it too,can't say we didn't either... This young man probably ruined his career,but I think he has had enough and blew his cork(so to speak)... Its his choice,its still freedom of speech and choice in America,as the last I knew! As said in my opinion,we the American people are to blame too,get off your butts and vote,call,voice your thoughts,email,write,let them know you want what is right! Don't just sit there picking your nose and not giving a damn about politics and DC! You want freedom,your better damn well stand up and take notice!!!!!NO PITY FOR FOOLS! I agree with all this:).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 8:40:05 GMT -5
I am pretty sure that all of us here and the Chinese knew that we were hacking them. Hard to tell who started it way back when though and it is way past mattering. I do not think he is going to post any revelations that the whole world did not know. Jim
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 13, 2013 9:30:51 GMT -5
I don't think whistleblowers are necessarily traitors. A citizen's responsibility to uphold the Constitution supersedes any other oath. However, it does depend on the kind of information being leaked. If names of operatives are leaked resulting in death of said folks, then there is culpability. Revealing an unconstitutional, illegal, spying program takes a pair of big brass ones and is heroic in my book. Life is not without risk and I'm not willing to give up an essential freedom like private communications, documents online, phone conversations etc for a little hypothetical safety some lying government spook says he's getting me. Again, this info is being stored for future use by whom? Who knows what other sh*theel we'll get in office or in power some day in the near future? Could be that sack of doody Hillary next time and after Benghazi, we know she's a lying politico who only cares about personal power and ideology and doesn't follow the rules.....Mel
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Post by kk on Jun 13, 2013 11:56:06 GMT -5
Interesting read Mel (I just read the first page here)
I rarely watch news and even rarer buy newspapers these days. But today I did get a paper, and to my surprise found 5 pages covering this case.
Now, knowingly stepping into a hornets-nest:
You originally stated: If it is indeed only communications from foreign sources, I'm less worried. However, if this is domestic snooping too, it gives me shivers.
And
I'd take my chances with the terrorists and keep my fourth amendment rights to privacy, How about you folks?,,,,,Mel
WHY IS THAT SO?
Your agencies main target, according to this guy, in Hong Kong where/are severs in our universities and with it a link into private homes (that basically covers voice/email and with it access to every program, every microphone and camera of any computer or electronic device that is linked to those universities in one way or another). Now, why would your opinion allow that, while you would not accept it in your own home. How many terrorists does your government think we got in Hong Kong? We have never been known for any, yet your statements basically consents to people here being terrorized by having privacy, that you so clearly value taken away. Its hypocrisy pure.
He is neither a hero nor a bad guy. He is just a face that gives an honest answer to something everyone knows is happening anyway. Talking about snooping is something akin to an atomic bomb in Israel. Everyone knows its there, yet everyone lies about it.
Governments around the world create fear and suspicion as a simple excuse to control the population. Its always been that way, and I see no reason for them to ever let go of it. Why do you think, you have got more agencies than any other country in the world? You build a fortress, and others will find a way to get around it. You hit someone, and they will find ways to hit back. As long as this is condoned by the masses, slowly but surely, its the way to rattle a house of cards.
For every country in the world, change needs to come from within as our biggest enemies are within our own borders. Terrorists are created and multiply every time someone tries to act only in self-interest. As long as everyone blames everyone else it can and will not stop until a final solution is upon us.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 13, 2013 15:53:17 GMT -5
kk, I think we are pretty much in agreement. I think the main danger to our country at present comes from within, not without. Most all our ruling class is concerned only with their own power and self interest. Regarding terrorism, no one will ever stop all of it and our various " government intelligence and security" agencies ( oxymoron there) network poorly, are always in competition with each other, and seem to be marginally effective. Heck in these times of terrorism, we can't even halfway secure our borders and cannot target real enemies because the friggn politicians don't allow profiling ( incredibly stupid). I find myself fearing our own government and our own politicians as much as I fear the odd terrorist because the mindsets of our rulers threaten our safety. Heck, they even refuse to admit where most the terrorism comes from ( Obviously, Muslim extremists) ie: calling the FT Hood shootings workplace violence. And again, I don't find the prospect of terrorism half as scary as all this IRS stuff which corrupted the electoral process in the last election and the threats to our essential liberties by our own government......Mel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 17:34:45 GMT -5
and the EPA scandal, and a healthcare system with a Randian name like "The Affordable Care Act", and the devalauation of your savings with free money and freely printed money, and the militarization of police (cops with tanks) and I am certain I could go on but believe my point is made.
Lately it has been an alphabet soup of scandals, TSA, IRS, EPA what is next?
Not an hour ago I bet a very good friend one cold frosty one, winner's choice. We are betting that we will soon learn that Obama and his crew have opened another "black ops" detainee center. This so he could close Club Gitmo. Plausible? abso-frikken-lutely. I took the no side, not because I don't believe Obama would do it, but because the speculation and timing are too specific.
Maybe this should been a separate post.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Jun 13, 2013 21:16:10 GMT -5
I'm totally in favor of the leak. Although I already had a good idea what was going on.
Just for the record.......i'm not anti-gov't and anti the jackasses in control of it. It's not a strict Obama thing, it's a not a republican thing, it's the club vs. us. I've personally known politicians that were one party or the other for decades and switched for better election chances. You can't trust any of them.
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