hand2mouthmining
spending too much on rocks
Purveyors of California Gem Rock
Member since September 2011
Posts: 495
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Post by hand2mouthmining on Jun 26, 2013 21:42:58 GMT -5
A good rockhound friend fell in love ( sigh!) with a Swedish lady, and decided to emigrate. After storing his collection of many buckets silver picked from other folks "old collections," he finally decided to high-grade, ship his chosen treasures, and we ended up with what he left behind. We've barely started cleaning out the rotten leaf-sludge and other delightful muck, but we've found some real treasures. Here are a couple of Fire agate nodules, the likes of which I've never before seen. 700 grams, 6.25" x 4.25" x 2.25" tall on the left, 425 grams, 4.25" x 2.5" x 2" tall on the right.The 400 gram piece, orange spots and slashes are fire.
The fire in these chunks show orange to chartreuse/lime green.
The piece on the left, 725 grams with a cool 1" free-standing Fire agate tube, surrounded by tiny quartz crystal faces.
Another view of this big hunk o' Fire agate.
Crazy fire & pearl chalcedony make this fascinating to contemplate ...
My own experience with Fire agate digging has been limited to Hector (south of US 66, near the old National Lead Mine), the south Cady Mountains and Kramer Junction (Hwy 58 & US 395) waaaaaaayyy back in the hills. Cool small bits of fire from time to time, but these are a whole 'nother level. So, I'm asking for your help, forum friends. If these look at all familiar to any of you Fire agate cutters, I'd appreciate any opinions of location. Additionally, since neither me or Al are up to sculpting something like these, we're trying to find a reasonable valuation. If you have any idea of such, please feel free to drop me a PM. Otherwise, please just enjoy our surprise treasures! Best regards, Kris
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Post by helens on Jun 27, 2013 1:00:44 GMT -5
Very neat:)! What actually got me started on rocks at all was opals... and when I started getting opals, I saw fire agates... and that's where the entire hoarding rock thing began. Your pieces look a bit like some of the ones I have... I have maybe 30 of these, but not as big as yours, I think my biggest piece is only 3" or a bit more. You asked where they came from, I bought them from an old indian, who collected them from the Reservation side of Slaughter Mountain, the San Carlos Apache Indian Reservation. Only those Apaches can mine it (which he was). Those are reputed to be the best fire agates in the world... I don't know, I mostly lost interest in opals and fire agates when I got hooked on the variety of rocks. These are some of mine so you can compare (naturally dry, so you don't see the fire as much): Here's what I did with a couple of the smaller ones (it was NOT FUN and I seriously doubt I'll ever try carving again)- in the arms of the angel: Little bubbler: The family: I'm not going to say what I think this looks like: What are they worth? Depends on the fire, but I'm sure they are worth something as specimens, since not many people have them anymore. I tried to find you prices... but they took them off once sold, still, here are some more rough to compare to: www.fireagate.us/fire-agate-shopping/fire-agate-rough-for-sale/fire-agate-rough-for-sale.shtmlIf this is helpful, there's a mid grade one in the above link that isn't sold, 1 3/8" for $175. OH! I found a rough that looks A LOT like the piece you showed! $99.95 for a big 4 1/2" x 3 1/2" x 3 1/4" piece: www.fireagate.us/fire-agate-shopping/fire-agate-mineral-specimens-for-sale/fire-agate-mineral-specimens-for-sale.shtmlHere's a link for some cut ones, the unsold range in price from about $80-$475 (for a 14.7 carat reddish/green one): www.fireagate.us/fire-agate-shopping/fire-agate-gemstones-for-sale/fire-agate-gemstones-for-sale.shtmlThey don't have the OMG ones on this site, but the prices are in the thousands if you can get a REALLY bright one. Now the cut prices are reflective about the WAY they are cut, when I started with these, I had NO IDEA you could cab them (nor had I ever heard the word 'cab' in my life before that). I looked at their bubbly 'gems' and thought that was the only way to cut a rock... so I got a dremel and diamond bits and that's how I did it too (thus the carvings). This is torture. Seriously. When they ask $79 for one, I think they are absolutely crazy and work for $2 an hour, that's how long it takes with a dremel and diamond bits. Maybe I did it wrong, but holy cow it is painstaking. I finish what I start, so I forced my way through the ones you see above, and then threw them all in a box because I never wanted to see them again...that was 2 years ago. It was that miserable I still don't want to see them again. Anyway, that's a fun site, tho I don't see their specimen pieces at the moment... those are something else! Oh! Found a link for one of the crazy looking ones... valued at $10,000 (no clue how big). It's beautiful, but not $10,000 beautiful: www.specimengold.com/fireagate.htmHope that helps:).
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Post by kk on Jun 27, 2013 1:57:58 GMT -5
That last one is only appraised at that price because its the combo that counts. If someone is crazy enough to cut that piece the price for the cabs is about 1% of the given value. Kris, some of them look promising from the outset, others though might have no fire in them at all. In any case, its a painfully slow progress to get to the fire and one might end up at times at 50+ hours with just a dime-sized piece out of big chunks. But,...... its just like a box of chocolate,...... you never..........
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Jun 27, 2013 9:30:38 GMT -5
Kris,
the matrix on these look like they came out of deer creek in Arizona. Large bytrodial pieces of fire agate and chalcedony are not as uncommon as some would have you believe. The value of the material depends on the quality of the color layers in the rough, and the ease of which those color layers can be exposed. from what I can see in the pictures, I wouldn't be expecting a big pay day from these pieces anytime soon. The first piece appears to be the best of the bunch here but you are very unlikely to get large sheets of fire out of any of these.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 27, 2013 10:25:51 GMT -5
This is an example of what could be found on the desert floor in the Wiley Wells area back in the 40's, 50's and early 60's. I didn't take time to stage this piece to show the fire, but there's plenty in there. I tumbled this piece just to clean it up a bit.
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Post by helens on Jun 27, 2013 10:47:30 GMT -5
Deer Creek and Slaughter Mountain are right next to each other, and the fire agates are roughly the same looking. The reason I said Slaughter Mountain is because that's where the big ones I've seen came from, and yours are very big.
I can vouch for what Kurt said: "Kris, some of them look promising from the outset, others though might have no fire in them at all. In any case, its a painfully slow progress to get to the fire and one might end up at times at 50+ hours with just a dime-sized piece out of big chunks."
It is rare for a Slaughter Mountain/Deer Creek fire agate to have NO fire, but I did manage to find one... that I ground down to literally a 1/4" thick sliver from a 1" thick piece a micro millimeter at a time chasing non-existent fire. Kinda mad at myself, if I knew then what I know now... what I ground to nothing was a nearly flawless RED translucent chalcedony botryoidal, shoulda polished it instead:P. hehe.
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Post by bobby1 on Jun 27, 2013 14:31:46 GMT -5
Many years ago I went to the mine near Pala, Ca (South of Blythe) and dug a bunch of similar looking fire agates. I've given or traded most of them away over the years. Lots of fun working them though. Bob
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hand2mouthmining
spending too much on rocks
Purveyors of California Gem Rock
Member since September 2011
Posts: 495
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Post by hand2mouthmining on Jun 27, 2013 16:19:14 GMT -5
Thanks for all of your great comments, my friends. The leads on location are most helpful, and the comparison photos great eye candy! I'm going to be windowing some Deer Creek FA that we acquired at the Redding CFMS Show a few years ago, and will take and post before and after photos for educations sake. The big FA chunks will be in our Show display for customers to enjoy, and hopefully teach us more about cutting them. While searching around for additional FA info, this great page came up: agatadefuego.com/roughfaq.htmIt's a truly useful page, good for seasoned Fire agate cutters and a FA beginner like me. Lots of eye candy, too! More FA soon! Best regards, Kris
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hand2mouthmining
spending too much on rocks
Purveyors of California Gem Rock
Member since September 2011
Posts: 495
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Post by hand2mouthmining on Jun 27, 2013 16:29:45 GMT -5
Kris, the matrix on these look like they came out of deer creek in Arizona. Large bytrodial pieces of fire agate and chalcedony are not as uncommon as some would have you believe. The value of the material depends on the quality of the color layers in the rough, and the ease of which those color layers can be exposed. from what I can see in the pictures, I wouldn't be expecting a big pay day from these pieces anytime soon. The first piece appears to be the best of the bunch here but you are very unlikely to get large sheets of fire out of any of these. Good point on the potential for cabbing, Don. These would definitely be better utilized for sculpting, though I could see sawing out "V's" from the portions with thick pearlescent chalcedony. Having cabbed and fixed-arbor sculpted botryoidal chalcedony in small pieces, I'll just have bite the bullet and try the FA, too. KK, good observations! It is just like most opal, you just don't know what your "bite" will reveal. Forrest's Mother was right! ;D Thanks again! Kris
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Post by kk on Jun 27, 2013 18:25:20 GMT -5
Always loved that website, their prices seem to have come down a little since I last visited. But even with that and a huge assortment of eye-candy, they seem to have a hard time to sell these days. The "Mine-wall" had been there for the past 5 years, and it would appear to finally have sold. A few other pieces are there since I started looking and are still there today. Over the years, they offered some sub-herb material, yet I never took the bait, simply because it was too expensive for me.
As for using your material as carving-medium. That's something to consider, as one can play with the different layers of chalcedony with any fire that is found as a bonus. All you need is someone who can envision something in the overall shape.
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Post by christopherl1234 on Jun 27, 2013 19:40:41 GMT -5
I have visited that web site a lot in the past. I feel, from my experience, that their per carat pricing chart is really just fantasy. I like Kurt have seen some of there cabs stay unsold for years. Who knows they may have just changed the photos stuff had been up there so long. You are welcome to visit my facebook photo albums to get a better idea of current reasonable market pricing www.facebook.com/ChristopherAnthonyJewelry/photos_albumsI sell rough, windowed and finished fire agate on a regular basis. Rough can range from $5 to 100's per pound depending on quality. Your material really does look like the Apache material.
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 21:53:10 GMT -5
does this ID10T really think nobody knows he hasn't photoshopped the SH\T out of this image? or this It seems the fire agate world is full of charlatans. No different than other segments. But this is ridiculous! Oh. He is just another Nevada corporation doing biz in Cali but not registered in California.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,019
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 28, 2013 0:11:31 GMT -5
Kris, I'm an old-timer and have cut a lot of fire agate. I can't claim to know what the rough from every location looks like but I'm betting your material came from the Deer Creek, AZ area. Before he passed away in the early 1980s, Don Van Dusen who owned probably the best-known claim there, used to deliver me big bags of rough from his mine that looked exactly like that. I still have maybe 50 pounds of it and will try to post some images for comparison.
Others have warned you of the difficulties in working that kind of rough. I used to wear out as many as 3 trim saw blades a day removing the chalcedony "caps," sectioning the bubbles and cutting "bases" on cabs. Unfortunately, unless you're quite lucky, there aren't many clues to locating the best color layers. You'll follow many "teasers" and then when you least expect it you'll hit one of those "OMG!!!" sections. It's all a persistence numbers game. You have to understand a bit about how the material is laid down by nature as well.
Rick
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Post by kk on Jun 28, 2013 2:52:30 GMT -5
Got one such moment just today. With colors very similar to your avatar. Will most likely have it ready by sometime next week. But as said above by Rick, those moments are exceedingly rare. I'm not mining or collecting, and I buy them piece by piece and still,....... if this one works out, it will only be the 3rd piece of that quality-color in now nearly 6 years of trying. Scott: while the pictures are certainly photoshoped, and there are a lot of them out there, those colors are possible at hand, but incredibly hard to capture on film. Most pictures that look good and are not photoshoped are usually taken under low-light conditions for the camera to pick up the colors that can clearly be seen at hand. That is also the reason, why I usually include at least one picture holding the object in hand. So everyone can compare with the skin-color. Most FA's while having those incredible colors within, do appear quite dark when seen at hand. So naturally, many people are disappointed when they see the stone the first time, because they usually do not look like the picture at all.
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hand2mouthmining
spending too much on rocks
Purveyors of California Gem Rock
Member since September 2011
Posts: 495
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Post by hand2mouthmining on Jul 8, 2013 15:09:19 GMT -5
Many thanks for your valuable input, gentlemen. I've cut exactly 3 FA stones over the years, and found it opal like in cutting. Thankfully, it's a good bit harder to screw up than opal, so learning won't be nearly as costly as opal. Christopher & Kurt, I'm with you on the Mexican FA site; good info, fantasy prices. I'll be checking out your Facebook albums, Christopher. Love your FA work! Thanks for the insight, Rick. I've read of the Deer Creek/Slaughter Mt. digs over the past 30 years, and can only sit and drool at the the thought of the bags of rough from Mr. Van Dusen! Having a consesus on my chunks is most helpful. Scott, thanks for displaying the photoshopped FA. The comparison with the unaltered photos like Helen's is most helpful. The big chunks will stay in our Show inventory until someone comes along with that wanna in their eyes, or we get confident with our sculpting abilities. Thanks again! Kris
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 12, 2013 20:44:31 GMT -5
Kris, I promised a few days ago to upload some images of original Van Dusen claim FA rough from Deer Creek. It took a while to dig it out and photograph it (wet). Following are a few examples. I should note that the white chalcedony "caps" are pretty typical of Deer Creek rough but I've seen similar structure in FA from other locations in the U.S. -- not so much Mexico but maybe others have. This is the same piece from the other side. It's been sawed to show the way the brown sard forms below the chalcedony. It's always a pretty good bet that there will be color right where the chalcedony ends. But cutting it off just right is a major challenge. This is another typical Deer Creek form and the color almost always starts right at the junction of the chalcedony and sard. Some look like this on one side: And like this on the other: Have fun with your FA! Rick
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hand2mouthmining
spending too much on rocks
Purveyors of California Gem Rock
Member since September 2011
Posts: 495
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Post by hand2mouthmining on Jul 19, 2013 15:48:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the pics, Rick! };D
These look exactly like the material we have, and I'm looking forward to cutting a few cabs this week. Pics will follow.
Kris
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