ragnaroktog
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Member since July 2013
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 8, 2013 21:48:20 GMT -5
Hey all, I've had an interest in gems and carving for a long time, but recently decided I wanted to give it a whirl on my own. I have a big ole list of questions, and I was hoping you guys could help out. 1) Where do you get stones to carve? I've been looking in my area, but being in a city hinders finding them on my own, and the only place I find them in shops are when they're expensive already polished pieces. 2) What equipment should I start off with? I know it's been said on here to buy diamond burrs and a dremel, but it was also mentioned that buying cheap was a bad idea. Is there a recommended starting kit? Could we maybe construct one piecemeal like? 3) I don't have much artistic talent. I was wondering how everyone takes something from their mind's eye and puts it into the stone. Just practice? 4) Finally, how many attempts did you make when you were learning before you had a decent looking piece? Thanks all! P.S. I did read the tutorial that's posted, I was just hoping for more details, especially on where to get stone. It'd suck to get all the equipment and not have anything to carve on.  |
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 8, 2013 23:51:32 GMT -5
I don't have many answers since I have no carved stone, just a few small shells.
My brother though use to carve stone. He found some place near here that he would get big chunks of alabaster to carve. Alabaster is fairly soft and so is easier to carve. Soapstone or calcite would also be good choices and are not that expensive.
From what I have seen with carvers some do it from their minds eye, but others draw the pattern on the outside of the stone before carving it.
A suggestion though would be to get some clay to start with for practice. You can buy 50 pound blocks cheaply in art supply shops or buy the powder to mix with water and make your own solid clay. It would make a great practice medium and if you mess up you can easily fix it or start back from scratch with the same material.
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Post by kk on Jul 9, 2013 0:23:51 GMT -5
Nothing beats practice. As James said, it depends on you if you draw it up or if you go entirely freehand. Personally I go freehand as drawing up often feels restrictive as you try very hard to keep to the original design. As for material: If you don't have any material to use, just give a shout to Tony or a few others who are posting here regularly. I'm sure they can fix you up good and quickly with practice material. As for what to use??? Cant help you there. I use anything that I think would look good color or pattern wise as I go for the stone first, and designs second. But,..... I do prefer to work with hard-stone. Agates and Jaspers are the order of day. Going cheap, is not always bad. I'm certainly no expert, but anything you might have seen from me is done with dremel (local equivalent), sandpaper and 50K diamond-paste plus an array of attachments that I got after I got started. My overall rule is to spend on quality material rather than on machines and equipment. Again, artistic talent or not; you will never know until you try. I could never draw or paint and I managed to flunk art-class repeatedly. My teacher from then still shakes his head, disbelieving what stone has brought out in me.  After close to 3 years in the hobby, I'm still trying hard to get decent looking pieces. One is always ones own worst critic. Don't get fixated on one single outcome. Be prepared to change things round midway through. Things will break, and you will remove something that you should not have. Happens all the time. Be ready to adjust and alter. I quite often start out with; lets say a feminine figure and end up with a guy. Dont let that bother you, just forge ahead and bring each piece to a finish. Never give up somewhere midway through. I find that things look the worst, just before everything falls into place. About two years ago, I started carving lines and cross-patterns in cabs that I managed to break, in order to save the material in some way. Got the hang of it quite quickly and started carving purposely. Today, I have nearly given up on cabs and carving has become such fun, that its all I wanna do in this hobby. |
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ragnaroktog
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 9
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 9, 2013 15:08:05 GMT -5
Nothing beats practice. As for material: If you don't have any material to use, just give a shout to Tony or a few others who are posting here regularly. I'm sure they can fix you up good and quickly with practice material. As for what to use??? Cant help you there. I use anything that I think would look good color or pattern wise as I go for the stone first, and designs second. But,..... I do prefer to work with hard-stone. Agates and Jaspers are the order of day. About two years ago, I started carving lines and cross-patterns in cabs that I managed to break, in order to save the material in some way. Got the hang of it quite quickly and started carving purposely. Today, I have nearly given up on cabs and carving has become such fun, that its all I wanna do in this hobby. Thanks for the encouragement and advice! Followup questions, it's cool that people are willing to send out starting materials, but who is Tony and the others you're referring to? Also, what do you mean by a cab? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 16:10:06 GMT -5
I looked into this a very tiny bit. My interest lies with jade. I have mountains to get mountains of black jade from.
It looks like many people start with basic tools and a bovine femur bone. The bones are sold at Petco roasted for dogs. Apparently they cut and polish similar to stone.
If after doing a few pieces you decide to pursue jade, hit me up and I'll give you a hunk to play with. Show pics of your practice pieces!
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ragnaroktog
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 9, 2013 16:37:44 GMT -5
I looked into this a very tiny bit. My interest lies with jade. I have mountains to get mountains of black jade from. It looks like many people start with basic tools and a bovine femur bone. The bones are sold at Petco roasted for dogs. Apparently they cut and polish similar to stone. If after doing a few pieces you decide to pursue jade, hit me up and I'll give you a hunk to play with. Show pics of your practice pieces! What basic tools would you suggest? The dremel tool that was mentioned by KK above? Or more basic, like a knife? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 17:42:53 GMT -5
I don't suggest. I have zero experience. I have simply "looked into it" such as you are now, except I used google because I didn't know KK.
Look at some of KK's work in this section. You will quickly learn his advice is worth taking.
I will point out that a knife is made of steel. Steel is harder than bone, but a knife is not likely to be a very good tool. Whittling bone doesn't seem like it would be successful. If your bent is hand tools then carbide rifts and files may work for you. The dremel will be cheaper though. Good luck. Hope to see your practice work!
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Post by kk on Jul 9, 2013 18:34:56 GMT -5
catmandewe forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/user/1394christopherl1234 forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/user/2844Are the ones I'm most familiar with, and both have been given exemplary feedback over the years. But....... there are many more....... As for cab: A cab is short for cabochons; a piece that you cut in standard or free-form with at least one plane of symmetry. Flat back, rounded unbroken (no carving) top. Have a look here. All the postings are about cabs. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/board/5/creating-cabochonsAs for working bones: you will need handtools. Rotary tools like dremel are quite fast (even at the lowest setting) and you could easily overheat and burn the bone. I never worked with bone, but others here have. Patience, and the right person will find this post and give you the answers you need. As for working Jade: excellent material to carve as long as it is solid. But for a beginner it can be rather frustrating when it comes to sanding and polish. Heck; thats a problem for advanced artists too. Plus every stone is quite different, so one formula hardly ever works more often than 3 out of ten. Just remembered: another good place for ideas about carving different materials and asking questions about tools in use is here: www.facebook.com/groups/123622711000444/ |
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ragnaroktog
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 9
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 9, 2013 19:51:41 GMT -5
What makes a good dremel? I'm looking at this one here: link
I heard tell that speeds were important when working on stones though, so I don't know if that would be too fast. Or maybe too slow? Would this work for burrs? Another link
Sorry for all the questions. I'm kinda crazy about getting things figured out before making the first step. :-p Thanks for everyone's help! |
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Post by kk on Jul 9, 2013 20:20:32 GMT -5
Mine comes with foot-pedal to vary speed. But,....... no idea how it works or really affects the stones I'm working with, as I have never used it. I run it a 22000rpm permanently for everything. Yet I do understand that that is not always in my best interest. Its just a matter of getting used to, and your feel for it will adjust, I suppose. Yeah, get one or two of those sets in different grids to start with, and then try out which shape and/or grid works best for you. There is much more durable burrs out there, but at a cost. So its good to start with those, and then go for the more expensive ones once you know what you need and like. Huston, we have a problem! had one of these in the beginning and lasted for quite some time.But that's rather for fine and light work. Forget about cutting preforms. I made the mistake of calling my rotary tool a dremel. It should have been (equivalent to) Foredome like here: www.amazon.com/SE-979FSG-Flexible-Grinder-Switch/dp/B000NW4YRK/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1373418982&sr=1-7&keywords=foredomThat thing looks pretty much what I use. |
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ragnaroktog
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Member since July 2013
Posts: 9
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 9, 2013 21:32:47 GMT -5
Hmm... so what's the difference between that and a dremel? It's quite less than the dremel. I'm wondering why.
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Jul 9, 2013 23:39:57 GMT -5
Kurt - in the interest of helping here when I have no actual qualification to speak of, would it be prudent advice to a beginner to start with something soft like soapstone (like what's shown in Jim's tutorial) to learn basic shaping? |
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ragnaroktog
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Member since July 2013
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 10, 2013 0:46:49 GMT -5
Tommy, I did read that post, however, I have no idea where to get soapstone. Googling for my area has resulted in naught.
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Post by kk on Jul 10, 2013 6:30:47 GMT -5
Hmm... so what's the difference between that and a dremel? It's quite less than the dremel. I'm wondering why. No idea really, but I suppose, as the motor is bigger, you got more torque in the fordome or equivalent and its more durable than the dremel. People on the forums have noted longevity for both, so cant help you on that account either. I got my local version of foredome these past 4 years, and never had t give up on me in any form. Absolutely Tommy. By the end of the day, you need to choose what you have got available (tools and material) and what looks good to your needs. As long as you are happy with it, you can shape just about anything. Including as suggested above: clay. I started on Fire Agate, simply because that was the first stone that I could envision something in. I got lucky and the seller send me a really special stone. Got lucky again, and did not mess that first one up, took 3 years of experimenting, yet eventually got there. |
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Post by Pat on Jul 10, 2013 9:52:03 GMT -5
I'm taking carving lessons. One of the first thing the teacher told us was to use a Foredom, not a Dremel. He said the Dremel wears out quickly, but the Foredom does not. I have a Dremel for other things, but use the Foredom for hard stone carving. I use the Foredom TX Jeweler's Kit. Comes with appropriate attachments. About $400. Here's a description: Series TX motors are Foredom's most powerful flex shaft. They have permanent magnet DC motors that feature the latest in flex shaft technology. These ball bearing models utilize advance rare earth magnets that deliver more torque at the low end ant throughout the entire speed range of 500 to 15,00 RPM. No other flex shaft gives you greater control of the cutting tool, drill of bur under any load. The TX motor come with standard 39" long flexible shaft and sheaths for connecting to any foredom's 20+ "quick disconnect" handpieces. With this TX300 Kit you have M.TX 1/3HP Permanent Magnet Motor C.TXR Foot Operated Speed Control in plastic housing H.30 Handpiece with geared 3-jaw #0 chuck and HPCK-0 chuck key with plastic handle AK11-54pc Accessory Kit with rotating bur and tool holder, Flex shaft grease, spare motor brushes. There is also a difference between hard stone carving and soft stone carving. Soft stones can be carved with hand tools; hard stones need the rotary drill. Carving is a lot of fun. Enjoy! Go here for Foredom's complete information: www.foredom.net/ktx300.aspx |
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ragnaroktog
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 9
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 10, 2013 16:22:34 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 15, 2013 1:42:31 GMT -5
Tommy, I did read that post, however, I have no idea where to get soapstone. Googling for my area has resulted in naught. If you are near Southern California I can try to find the name of the name of the road where I found a bunch of it a few years back. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 8:41:54 GMT -5
I started with soap stone but I would recommend alabaster. Soapstone is so soft that you can scratch it with a fingernail and if you do not chew off your fingernails you will end up scratching it. Alabaster polishes better also. This is where I used to buy my stone. www.stonesculptorssupplies.com/ Their stone prices are pretty good but their tools are way high. They have some boxes of assorted pieces that are priced good and it gives you a lot of different alabaster stones to work with. If you google "stone carving tools" you will get many hits. I have not checked any of them out so I can not recommend. When I started I got all my tools from the hardware stores. Jim |
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ragnaroktog
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Member since July 2013
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Post by ragnaroktog on Jul 15, 2013 10:08:16 GMT -5
If you are near Southern California I can try to find the name of the name of the road where I found a bunch of it a few years back. In Texas, I'm afraid. San Antonio. The land of flat. And heat. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 13:04:06 GMT -5
dont worry ragnar. The soapstone place in California is hotter! It smack dab in the middle of the Mojave desert.
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