mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Sept 27, 2013 19:56:39 GMT -5
Much of the wood recovered from the Yellowstone River drainage is black as coal when cut. One day soaking in regular household bleach sometimes does wonders, revealing details you wouldn't otherwise see. Not every piece reacts to the bleach, however, and some pieces don't react uniformly across the section. My question is, what does the bleach remove? Any ideas?
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,718 
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 1, 2013 10:42:52 GMT -5
Great question,can't believe you haven't recieved an answer.....I have a few pieces of petwood wood from the Yellowstone River(Billings area)...Never though of cutting it,I might tumble it though....
Huh,never tried bleaching any rock...
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 1, 2013 11:05:50 GMT -5
I have quite a bit of white-skinned black wood too. I have thought about trying bleach or peroxide, but have not as of yet. Good to know it can lighten it up some. I can't speak with certainty as to what the dark mineral is that is being bleached, but I think it is carbon. My theory is the black woods were associated with fires that were part of the volcanic processes in the Yellowstone basin. Sometimes when cutting them, one can smell musty charcoal. The ones I have cut vary in hardness,most will take a shine. . . have never seen one I would call agatized.
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Oct 1, 2013 12:28:48 GMT -5
You might try leaving the pet wood in the bleach for 1 month or more. Try to have a second piece, untreated, so you can see the difference. I was amazed at how much lighter the rock became. Sorry, I didn't think to take a photo, now if I can just FIND that piece...
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,343
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Post by panamark on Oct 1, 2013 14:31:22 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with UncleSoska, in my experience soaking for just one day only changes the dirt and surface contaminants. You can probably get the same effect using muric acid/iron out stuff. I put my pieces in a glass jar, fill with bleach, and then put on the window sill so the sun can work on it. After a month or two some of the pieces have been improved (i.e. you can see the annual rings of the wood better, etc) and some other pieces are unaffected.  I am working on trying to figure out other ways to "improve the contrast" in petwood, but it is a slow learning process. I believe the more agatized the piece, the less you can easily affect it. I do think having the pieces exposed to sun, both during bleach and after removed and rinsed, helps. |
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Thunder69
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Thunder 2000-2015
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Post by Thunder69 on Oct 1, 2013 17:12:55 GMT -5
Kinda like dying a brazilian agate, But in effect cleaning out the impurities and clearing it up instead
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 1, 2013 22:13:12 GMT -5
Normal household 3% hydrogen peroxide will have little if any bleaching effect. If, and it's a big if, you can get industrial strength 30% hydrogen peroxide it might be worth a try. If you do manage to find and buy some, don't be surprised if the FBI pays you a visit though. Industrial peroxide is a major component in some types of home made bombs.
You could try soaking a test slab in CLR, and another in Super Iron Out. I've had some success cleaning badly stained Fairburn agates in Super Iron Out. It works best if you can keep it heated. I use a small Crock Pot for the job, set on the warming setting.
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Oct 2, 2013 23:15:13 GMT -5
I have soaked the wood for weeks, some with no improvement. I can tell after 24 hours if it is going to be worth continuing. Some change is quite spectacular. The interesting thing is from the outside the wood won't necessarily give you any indications it is black inside. The outside often has considerable detail showing. My theory is the groundwater or river water does the same as the bleach, only over much longer periods of time. Still wish I knew the chemical reaction that was taking place.
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ash
spending too much on rocks
Prairieville, Louisiana
Member since July 2012
Posts: 361
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Post by ash on Oct 6, 2013 15:29:13 GMT -5
Normal household 3% hydrogen peroxide will have little if any bleaching effect. If, and it's a big if, you can get industrial strength 30% hydrogen peroxide it might be worth a try. I would also add that any grade higher than the 3%ish that you buy at the store can cause a very bad burn if it contacts the skin, especially reagent grade material. Probably best for most folks to stay away from that, but if you do decide to use it, be very careful and read the MSDS and follow the instructions for safe usage found there. |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Oct 6, 2013 17:48:36 GMT -5
I cooked Mcdermitt wood a couple of days ago. It was a one pound piece and had a variety of silicified to not so silicified. I saw no change. And i hit it hard w/600F for 6 hours. It cooked a shoe box sized coral right to the center so i know it got hammered with deep heat. It was mostly off white to dark brown. No reds/yellows.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
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Post by panamark on Oct 6, 2013 20:59:54 GMT -5
I cooked Mcdermitt wood a couple of days ago. It was a one pound piece and had a variety of silicified to not so silicified. I saw no change. And i hit it hard w/600F for 6 hours. It cooked a shoe box sized coral right to the center so i know it got hammered with deep heat. It was mostly off white to dark brown. No reds/yellows. Good to know. Thanks James for posting. I have been planning on heating some, but maybe now won't bother. It probably depends on what minerals are present in the petwood. Just like coral and everything else. Was it a dark piece to start with? I am thinking only the light colored pieces might show anything. |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Oct 6, 2013 22:41:59 GMT -5
It had no yellow orange red or reddish brown. meaning that it was probably devoid of iron. Not good for the home team.
But you never know. Heat is unpredictable and often requires Shaman skills:) If you post a video of yourself doing a 'color dance' I will let you know if you have a chance.
I have a bunch of agate varieties from Rio Grande in S Texas. I need to start cooking samples of that. What few pieces i cooked turned ugly brown-the coral temp is too hot for moss agate
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 15:55:30 GMT -5
if the black is iron oxide the bleach may change it to iron chloride. Is there red left after the bleach?
If the black is organic it will disappear.
If the black is carbon, then nothing will change.
Can anyone think of another source for black?
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Post by DirtCleaner on Oct 7, 2013 21:43:14 GMT -5
Beauty supply stores have stronger bleach. I picked some up last fall to bleach a whitetail skull I am doing a European mount with.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2013 22:04:40 GMT -5
post the finished mount in member photos! good call on the mount, congrats on the hunt.
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Steve
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2005
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Post by Steve on Oct 10, 2013 18:58:59 GMT -5
I was told that you are removing magnesium when you bleach the black from petrified wood. I trust my source, a local self made expert on petrified wood.
Wait until you've polished your piece before bleaching it. The polishing process will bring back the black as you are only bleaching the very most outer layer of atoms.
I've had black petrified wood react quite well to bleaching, bringing out nice colors and structure.
I've also had pieces that just stayed black. I had a couple of pieces that I left in for too long that went pure white.
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 25, 2013 3:42:53 GMT -5
if the black is iron oxide the bleach may change it to iron chloride. Is there red left after the bleach? If the black is organic it will disappear. If the black is carbon, then nothing will change. Can anyone think of another source for black? Manganese oxides are found in some petrified wood and can form black within the stone. Iron sulfide can also create black within petrified wood. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 10:10:24 GMT -5
vegasjames, welcome back! Good points on the chemistry.
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Oct 25, 2013 16:33:46 GMT -5
Beauty supply stores have stronger bleach. I picked some up last fall to bleach a whitetail skull I am doing a European mount with. Never ever ever ever ever put bone in bleach. You will destroy it. It may not show right away, but most of the time it will eventually. Peroxide is the tool for the job. This I know. This is one of the subjects I know very well.  |
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Thunder69
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Post by Thunder69 on Oct 25, 2013 16:46:27 GMT -5
What the heck is that in the jar??? Shark ..or dinner later..John
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I am working on trying to figure out other ways to "improve the contrast" in petwood, but it is a slow learning process. I believe the more agatized the piece, the less you can easily affect it. I do think having the pieces exposed to sun, both during bleach and after removed and rinsed, helps. 
