adrian65
Cave Dweller
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
|
Post by adrian65 on Nov 11, 2013 12:41:14 GMT -5
You seem to be a very experimented metalsmith, to say the least. May we see your creations please?
Adrian
|
|
herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
|
Post by herchenx on Nov 11, 2013 12:58:38 GMT -5
Thanks for posting all the information!
I spent 3 months of Saturdays last year with a metalsmith in her studio trying to learn and ended up with a shop full of gear and little idea how to use it. She went straight to getting creative and skipped all the basics so even though I can solder wire I don't have a good handle on laying out basic designs and making them work.
I need to spend a little time in the shop and play with some silver wire to see if I can set a cab and go from there, having a dedicated section on here would be nice, so folks like me could crawl before we walk and go through the same bottom-up learning we do with rocks, and get folks help along the way.
That said, people will already help with anything we ask about just because that's the kind of place this is - I think a metalsmithing section would just make it easier for others to find information.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 11, 2013 13:26:37 GMT -5
You seem to be a very experimented metalsmith, to say the least. May we see your creations please? Adrian Hi Adrian, Always a pleasure to hear from you! All my metalworking was done in the 60's. from the 70's on I was driving over a 100 miles to work and another 100 back after 10-12 hour days on powerhouses trying to support 7 daughters - keeping the wolf away from the door. As I have mentioned before, I made all my money by buying high and giving stuff away to my friends. When my Mom was killed in a car wreck, I gave all the jewelry I had made for her to other relatives. My wife is not a jewelry person, so . . . For at least 20 years my stuff was in storage. When we moved here in 2000 everything was piled into the separate garage and workshop out back, to which I have added two extensions. Like you, I'm still putting my shop together, but I'm a lot slower than you are. I did build a "rock-case" and filled with the best of my collection and gave it to my granddaughter's school. You can read about it here: www.mindat.org/article.php/1359/A+School+Rock+Cabinet+Dave
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 11, 2013 13:48:40 GMT -5
Thanks for posting all the information! I spent 3 months of Saturdays last year with a metalsmith in her studio trying to learn and ended up with a shop full of gear and little idea how to use it. She went straight to getting creative and skipped all the basics so even though I can solder wire I don't have a good handle on laying out basic designs and making them work. I need to spend a little time in the shop and play with some silver wire to see if I can set a cab and go from there, having a dedicated section on here would be nice, so folks like me could crawl before we walk and go through the same bottom-up learning we do with rocks, and get folks help along the way. That said, people will already help with anything we ask about just because that's the kind of place this is - I think a metalsmithing section would just make it easier for others to find information. You are welcome. Silversmithing is a simple subject. I once brought some mate4rial out to the powerhouse I was working on and coached a fellow electrician through the process of making a ring. That was all he needed and he has been making fine creations ever since. 1. Bend a piece of bezel around the cabochon and cut it to fit. Clamp it between two Popsicle sticks and file off the top with a course file to produce a serrated edge, then solder it together with high temperature solder. Melt ends of silver wire to make berries, use chisel to shape silver scrap into leaves. 2. Arrange all of the above on a sheet of plate the way you like it with snippets of medium solder under the pieces. Heat it from underneath. Solder follows heat! 3. Bend half round silver wire around an iron worker's drift pin or ring mandrel to the size you want. File the two ends flat and set on top of the upside down piece you just made with low temp solder between. A wet towel as a heat sink will protect your previous work. Heat from the top and watch the shank sink down into place and remove the heat. Clean in pickling solution, dry - possibly paint parts with egg white to turn it black and bring out the pattern. 4. Drop the cabochon into place and bend the bezel around it with a burnisher. 5. Put your creativity into high gear. Dave
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 11, 2013 14:22:47 GMT -5
Tufa = limestone, travertine; but Eric Begay wrote: So it sounds to me more like pumice. [/quote] I believe the word "tufa" in common use for that casting technique is a misnomer. The porous volcanic stone used by the Navajos is probably tuff, compressed volcanic ash, not limestone. I cast some silver pieces using that method years ago and -- if I recall correctly -- the material was tuff which is basically tiny shards of wind-borne volcanic glass that's been solidified as sediment. My original question was how does the garnet technique differ from tufa casting? What does the garnet sand do? How does it improve the process? Rick
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 11, 2013 14:35:27 GMT -5
Tufa = limestone, travertine; but Eric Begay wrote: So it sounds to me more like pumice. I believe the word "tufa" in common use for that casting technique is a misnomer. The porous volcanic stone used by the Navajos is probably tuff, compressed volcanic ash, not limestone. I cast some silver pieces using that method years ago and -- if I recall correctly -- the material was tuff which is basically tiny shards of wind-borne volcanic glass that's been solidified as sediment. My original question was how does the garnet technique differ from tufa casting? What does the garnet sand do? How does it improve the process? Rick [/quote] Ah, I thought you were asking about the Tufa. I'm sure you are right about Tuff! The garnet has a reducing effect like working on charcoal so there isn't so much of a fire scale problem. Dave
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 16:39:44 GMT -5
The Tufa at Mono Lake are formed mud volcanoes during a period when the lake water was MUCH deeper. It really is just hardened high limestone content mud.
EDITED TO ADD: I should add that it's very alkaline. Higher than carbonates alone.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 11, 2013 19:06:01 GMT -5
The Tufa at Mono Lake are formed mud volcanoes during a period when the lake water was MUCH deeper. It really is just hardened high limestone content mud. EDITED TO ADD: I should add that it's very alkaline. Higher than carbonates alone. No particular argument with what you say but is it the same stuff the Navajo smiths call "tufa?" I don't think so. I believe they use tuff (consolidated volcanic ash) and that "tufa" in that context is a misnomer. Either way there's no reason to raid Mono Lake's protected towers The stuff Navajo smiths use can be had for a couple of bucks a pound from Thunderbird Supply. Rick
|
|
Marie
starting to shine!
Member since March 2013
Posts: 40
|
Post by Marie on Nov 12, 2013 21:13:26 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this post, I've only had any real experience with wire wrapping and pmc. To add a note about the pmc, you don't need a kiln, you can use a butane torch with many of the brands. The copper pmc is much cheaper than the silver for anyone who wants to dabble.
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Nov 12, 2013 21:49:15 GMT -5
As Marie says, you can use a torch instead of a kiln on pmc. A pmc teacher walked me through the steps, and we used a mini-butane torch. Worked. That is the only pmc experience I have.
|
|
herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
|
Post by herchenx on Nov 13, 2013 0:40:38 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this post, I've only had any real experience with wire wrapping and pmc. To add a note about the pmc, you don't need a kiln, you can use a butane torch with many of the brands. The copper pmc is much cheaper than the silver for anyone who wants to dabble. Good thought re: copper vs silver to learn. I've wanted to try it out but the metalsmith teacher was anti-pmc
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 13, 2013 19:36:32 GMT -5
Great post! I have slowly been buying tools that will double for smithing whenever I can get a class for it. Oddly, they are not easy to find. I don't want a whole degree, for Pete's sake. I just want to watch a pro for a while and ask questions-- lots of questions.
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 13, 2013 20:11:33 GMT -5
Great post! I have slowly been buying tools that will double for smithing whenever I can get a class for it. Oddly, they are not easy to find. I don't want a whole degree, for Pete's sake. I just want to watch a pro for a while and ask questions-- lots of questions. What tools are you unable to find? I have sources for nearly anything you might need. Rick
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 13, 2013 20:23:43 GMT -5
Hey gemfeller- Thank you so much, but it is the lessons I'm having a hard time finding. I always hear about people taking classes, but I have no clue where they are finding them. My local rock club is small and last I checked didn't offer smithing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 20:26:51 GMT -5
there's a guy here in LA does the regularly. Wanna travel? Wifey n I buy ya lunch!
|
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
|
Post by gemfeller on Nov 13, 2013 21:13:17 GMT -5
Hey gemfeller- Thank you so much, but it is the lessons I'm having a hard time finding. I always hear about people taking classes, but I have no clue where they are finding them. My local rock club is small and last I checked didn't offer smithing. My bad -- I'll start taking remedial reading lessons. I don't know about your area but here in CA nearly every 2-year college offers silversmithing classes as do most adult education programs. Rick
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 14, 2013 10:27:08 GMT -5
Great post! I have slowly been buying tools that will double for smithing whenever I can get a class for it. Oddly, they are not easy to find. I don't want a whole degree, for Pete's sake. I just want to watch a pro for a while and ask questions-- lots of questions. For instructions take a look at: silversmithing.homestead.com/SilverClasses1.htmlBut you can learn it all on your own with a good book like Sharr's. Copper is definitely the way to go for beginner experiments, learning how hot solder flows etc. Try: www.copperenamelshapes.com/?gclid=COGgxbbK5LoCFe1xQgodcwsAgwEven copper prices have gone way up since I last purchased 20 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 14, 2013 10:41:45 GMT -5
Basic Ring Making:
Navajo Silversmithing:
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2013 19:36:56 GMT -5
Higher intelligence great info
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Nov 15, 2013 20:55:34 GMT -5
A handy tool for bending and smoothing the bezel around your stone is a burnisher. I found a 1/4" X 1 1/4 X 2" Chunk of iron stock rounded on one end and polished worked better for me. I can't find my old one, but found a blank from the last time I made a bunch for friends. Saw off the torched end and a little polishing and I may even do something again.
|
|