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Post by iant on Nov 25, 2013 15:35:17 GMT -5
Hello All, I am Ian from a small town in Fife, Scotland, just over the Forth Bridge from Edinburgh.
I always liked collecting polished stones as a lad but never produced any of my own. Now grown up, am enjoying getting into the hobby with my own children. We picked up some nice pebbles on our summer holiday on the Angus coastline this year. When we got home I tried polishing these with my dremel and some car polish. The results looked ok for a little while, then I realised I should buy a tumbler.
First I got a small two barrel Beach tumbler, and used that for a couple of months. Myself and the kids were still interested after this time and had way too much material to get polished, so I bought a Raytech tumble vibe machine to speed things up.
I absolutely love the whole process of looking for interesting stones on the beach etc, to tumbling and seeing the end results!
Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading and learning how to improve my technique and results. This looks like a great place to share things!
Regards
Ian
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Post by Pat on Nov 25, 2013 16:03:49 GMT -5
Welcome!
There are many tumble experts here. Check the Home page. Tumbling is the first section.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Nov 25, 2013 17:58:07 GMT -5
Howdy and welcome to the forum.....
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bsky4463
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2013
Posts: 1,696
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Post by bsky4463 on Nov 26, 2013 0:39:14 GMT -5
Welcome Ian, cheers from Montana.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Nov 26, 2013 0:43:03 GMT -5
Greetings from Colorado!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 7:10:16 GMT -5
Welcome from north central Wyoming the land of nothing but rocks and pebbles. The square state that even a lot of Americans can not find. Jim
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Post by iant on Nov 27, 2013 2:17:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome folks! I have a batch of rocks just finishing. Ill post up some pictures in the next couple of days. Any advice will be apprecated as to how I can get better results!
Regards Ian
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Nov 27, 2013 18:16:02 GMT -5
Hi Ian,
We'll look forward to seeing how your rocks look when they are out - folks will jump in when you ask for opinions or help.
Many folks on here (myself included) have discovered the benefits of a vibratory tumbler for stages 2 through polish. There are some folks who get fantastic results using nothing other than a rotary, but regardless one cardinal rule is never let any contaminant from one stage make its way into the next stage.
This is most often prevented through 2 means: 1) don't let any stones leave stage 1 (coarse tumble) until they are pit- and crack-free, this prevents grit from hiding in the nooks and crannies that can contaminate the next stage and 2) keeping a barrel dedicated for polish
I see you have a Raytech and I'm not familiar with a "beach tumbler" - but if it is a rotary you would be best served by doing your coarse tumble entirely in the rotary (it will round off the stones, the vibratory will not) then selectively building a batch to move onto the next finer grit in the vibratory.
I've had a couple chances to buy a Raytech but passed because of the plastic barrels, to me they were too noisy and seemed thin - I have a UV10 from Thumlers and it has a heavy rubber/plastic barrel that deadens the sound and is very durable. That said, I would assume a Raytech would do fine for stages 2 through polish, but definitely try to keep a barrel completely dedicated to polish, the plastic barrel will get grit embedded in it and could prevent the polish from ever getting the stone to a high gloss.
If you want input on how long to keep rocks in each stage or anything else just ask.
Good luck!
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Post by 1dave on Nov 27, 2013 23:33:39 GMT -5
You are in a fortunate area! There are some wide and long fractures across Scotland that have filled with pegmatite and fantastic agates abound! You can read about them in the geology section of "The annals of Lesmahagow." published in 1864 and available as a free download from: archive.org/details/annalsparishles00greegoogGood hunting!
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Nov 28, 2013 1:03:27 GMT -5
Welcome to the mad house.... once your infected, you'll never want to leave !!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 3:39:22 GMT -5
Greetings [iant] Ian firstly may i welcome you to RTH Forums from this side of the pond! Look out for [celt40] Girvan, [jockstrap] Irvine, [foogy] Kilsyth, [billyd] Montrose & [opisthorchis] SW Scotland. There are 3 Lapidary clubs in Scotland, 2 in Leith, Edinburgh roughly 0.62 miles (1km) apart & 1 in Glasgow. Scottish Mineral & Lapidary Club (EH6 6RZ)Full member fees £180 per year or Associate £15 Jan - Dec + £1 per session. Free Uniform one time only, access up to 18" saw (12" thick cut),faceting but too few machines 5 year waiting list, a pair of each Diamond F100, F220 & F400 grinders & flat laps F80, F220, F400, F600, F17,500 (1.5 micron) Cerium Oxide / F90,000 (0.3 micron) Aluminum Oxide polish. Associate: large library of books rocks & machines at discounted prices & getting rocks slabbed by a full member at a reduced cost or a slab or two), Metalwork for jewelery (silver & Enamelling). Your £1 fee include tea or coffee & biscuits. 3 days Tue - Thu 11AM - 3:30PM, 4 nights Mon - Wed & Fri 6:30PM - 10PM with occasional weekends. Leith Lapidary Club (EH6 7JG)Full member fees £60 per year Nov - Oct + £2 per session. 14" saw (6" thick cut),a faceting machine (unused), Diamond F80, F220, F360 & F600 grinders & flat laps F80, F220, F400, 1.5 micron (equivalent to 17,500 grit) Cerium Oxide polish & Diamond polishing pads F140, F360, F600, F1200, F3000, F8000, F14,000 (1.75 micron) & F50,000 (0.5 microns). With a small library of books, Metalwork for jewelery (silver, Copper, casting & Enamelling). Your £2 fee include tea or coffee & biscuits. 2 days Mon & Wed 1:30pm - 4:30pm, 7:30pm - 9:30pm, Thu evening 7:30pm - 9:30pm with occasional last Sunday of the month, also 2 or more members can work from 4:30 - 7:30pm by arrangment only. I am currently a member of both Leith Lapidary Club & Scottish Mineral & Lapidary Club. West of Scotland Mineral & Lapidary Society Knightswood Community Centre, 201 Alderman Road, Glasgow, G31 3DD. Secretary: Mr. Wm. McCririck, 40 Glen Ogililvie. East Kilbride, Glasgow, G74 3SY. Tel.No. 01355-246272 Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I currently have a 3lb Beach (UK), Lortone QT 12/66 (USA) rotaries & 2x Viking Vibrasonic (Diamond Pacific) (USA) virbrating tumblers, with Silicon Carbide grit F80, F220, F600, F1200, with Tin Oxide (1.0 micron) & Aluminum Oxide (1.0 micron & 0.3 micron) polishes. I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from that monstrosity & 7 miles west of this new monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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Post by iant on Nov 29, 2013 3:05:13 GMT -5
Hi, Thanks again everyone for all the welcomes and information. It really is much appreciated. Andy what a huge amount of information you have given there- thanks so much! Ill try to find time to digest that this weekend! 1Dave, I am looking forward to reading that, thanks. John (Herchenx) Thanks for those points. I had read about the problems with the Raytech, but I had to import it from the US as there were none in the UK I could find, it was pretty much the only one I could afford as the price more than doubles when you add postage, duty etc. I am currently using the barrel tumblers for the rough stage. I do indeed use a second bowl in the vibe machine for polishing. However the grit kit I got with it was a Lortone 4 stage grit. It has two grit levels, 80 grit and I think a 220 or maybe 400 grit (I can't remember), then a pre-polish and final polish. I have been using both the pre-polish and polish stages in the second "clean" bowl. Is this wrong?, should I only be using the polish stage? I do have a third brand new bowl I can start polishing only in. Does everyone think that the polish I am using is appropriate for the general wide range of rocks I am trying to process or should I get another type?
I am currently using the vibe machine for the following periods: 1) Fine grit (stage 2) 2- 3 days - Changing the grit (washing everything out and replacing) each day. 2) Prepolish (stage 3) 2 days - again clean out each day. 3) Polish stage 4 - 2 days - clean out each day.
I am not finding burnishing with soap makes much/any difference. Perhaps I am not using the correct type of soap? I just buy the most basic supermarket soap which I assumed would be the most harsh! :-) We cant buy the same types of soaps ie Ivory soap over here. Andy what do you use/ recommend?
My biggest disappointment is that some just don't seem to take a shine when I think they should. I'm not talking about incorrect types of rocks like sandstone either.
I'm at work during all daylight hours at the moment - but hopefully this weekend I will get some daylight time to be able to take some pictures of my results to share so you can comment and let me have some feedback.
Thanks again everyone!
Regards Ian
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Post by 1dave on Nov 29, 2013 8:43:35 GMT -5
Hi again Ian,
Where there is a will there is a way.
some have built tumblers out of old tires:
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 2:38:26 GMT -5
Greetings [iant] Ian for burnishing I use Borax you can order it from your local chemist, in 09 I bought it for £1.50 for 0.5kg under the brand "Borax Ph Eur". Fixed = F, Silicon Carbide = SC, Aluminum Oxide = AO, Tin Oxide = TO, Cerium Oxide = CO. Lortone 4 stage kit = SC 60/90 coarse, SC 120/220 medium, AO F5,000 (5 micron) pre-polish, AO F25,000 (1.0 micron) Polish. UK 3 stage kit = SC F80 coarse, SC F400 fine, CO F17,500 (1.5 microns) Polish. I have the following = SC F80 coarse, SC F220 medium, SC F400 fine, SC F600 very-fine, SC F1200 ultra-fine, Lortone AO F25,000 (1.0 microns) polish, TO F25,000 (1.0 microns) polish & X3 AO F90,000 (0.3 microns) polish. Most rocks with a hardness of (Moh's 5.0 - 7.0) will start to shine with F600 or above, so F600 is also a pre-polish. Question 1: I take it you have the 3lb Beach with plastic barrels option B below? Question 2: What rocks are you working on? No doubt the stones have not been in F80 (60/90) long enough, I had some stones that were in F80 for 18 months with a recharge every 5 days, ideally you should run your rocks in F80 (60/90) for at least 3-5 cycles before checking your stones for rejects. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from this monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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Post by iant on Nov 30, 2013 8:51:48 GMT -5
Andrew, correct - I have the type B tumbler pictured above. Since the rocks are already fairly smooth from being on the beach, and I am very selective about what I take - try to get only smooth undamaged pebbles in the first place, I guess that cuts down the initial rough stage tumbling. But I don't know what type of rocks they are - that I suppose is the problem. They may be too soft to take a polish. The most disappointing are the pale green rocks from the beach. I have now put pictures of my more successful polishes on the pictures section. Will try to dig up some of the worst ones for you to see. Thanks again for your input, very helpful and much appreciated! Cheers.
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Post by iant on Nov 30, 2013 9:32:45 GMT -5
Hi, Just read the Drummond Island Rocks thread on beach pebbles tumbling and they threw in some rock stating that they knew that they wouldnt take a high shine. Those look exactly like the same type as I have. It's a shame because lots seem to have interesting patterns. At least I now know it's not anything I am doing wrong. I will try to get my hands on Borax thought. Ian
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billyd
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2004
Posts: 157
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Post by billyd on Feb 19, 2014 16:52:44 GMT -5
hi ian this is billy.d from montrose you should try the coast from lighthous to lunan bay and any feild's.dont know anything about geology try them all. best o luck
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Feb 21, 2014 20:03:37 GMT -5
Iant, For the burnishing, you should look for a detergent with Borax in it!... that seems to work the best. I use something called 20 mule team Borax, but have found most supermarkets carry some kind of a borax detergent that can be used to good results!
now if I can just keep my wife from stealing it for her self to use!!
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Post by iant on Feb 23, 2014 20:44:39 GMT -5
hi ian this is billy.d from montrose you should try the coast from lighthous to lunan bay and any feild's.dont know anything about geology try them all. best o luck Thanks Billy, I have only just seen your post but know that this is great advice because I was there last week and found a load. Will do a trip report with pictures when I get time. Kilns regards, Ian
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Post by iant on Feb 23, 2014 20:46:02 GMT -5
Iant, For the burnishing, you should look for a detergent with Borax in it!... that seems to work the best. I use something called 20 mule team Borax, but have found most supermarkets carry some kind of a borax detergent that can be used to good results! now if I can just keep my wife from stealing it for her self to use!! Thanks for that tip. I will look into that!
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