Don
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Member since December 2009
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Post by Don on Dec 4, 2013 13:55:24 GMT -5
I've been using a hand held portable propane plumbers torch for a while now but I'm ready to move on to something more professional for silver work. I was looking at the Smith Acetlyene torch, but hear that insurance companies don't like having tanks in the house... What do you use? I'll need something for fine work as well as heating and annealing large cuffs. What would you recomend and why?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 4, 2013 14:11:28 GMT -5
Lot of people end right back to oxyacetylene. I have welder size. I like having the extra heat. You said something more professional. Did you mean hotter Don?
Seems like about all the silver folks come back to it. Maybe a discussion w/the insurance company.
I am thinking the insurance company is not going to like having any tanks in the house. They are all potential bombs.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Dec 4, 2013 15:36:32 GMT -5
Thanks James, yes I need more heat for soldering larger items, as well something with fine tips for more delicate work.
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blackout5783
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
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Post by blackout5783 on Dec 4, 2013 16:52:27 GMT -5
To get around the tank problem you could get a water torch. They are oxy-hydrogen and generate gas on demand from distilled water.
Kinda pricey though, and you are limited on the size of a flame you can get. For most annealing it would probably be OK, but it wouldn't work for casting.
I don't have any firsthand experience, just what I saw online.
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Post by 1dave on Dec 4, 2013 19:21:29 GMT -5
I'm getting ready to go with a natural gas Bunsen Burner with Bernzomatic assist for extra heat from time to time.
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Post by Pat on Dec 4, 2013 21:00:20 GMT -5
I work on sterling and copper mostly the size of a fifty cent piece or smaller.
Torches used are a small butane with a big head that gets to 2600 degrees, or a propane/ambient air torch for larger pieces. These work well for this size jewelry work.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 4, 2013 21:42:40 GMT -5
I have the Smith acetylene /air model. You do have a tank in the house but only one. I have 5 tips for it from pinpoint real large. Not quite as hot as oxygen acet but you don't have that crappy dirty lampblack floating about when u first light up the torch and it's a hell of a lot hotter than the mini torches
Just my two cents worth
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Post by connrock on Dec 5, 2013 9:07:30 GMT -5
It's pretty hard to debate which torch/gas is best as they all have their good and bad points and capabilities. Being a retired pipefitter I had 3 "B" tank set-ups like this,,, gBSJRhDen,Q~~60_35.JPG) Not knowing a thing about working with silver I went to this shop in Avon,Ct. and asked Richard Parker to get me off the ground,,,,,,, www.littlesilvershop.com/I found Richard to be a pretty "gruff' guy but he was using the same torch set-up I had and showed me a few things,,,to get me off the ground. I tried using this torch set-up for about 6 months and almost quit because I was getting very frustrated trying to control what I wanted to heat and what I didn't want to heat.It seemed to me that no matter what tip I used it wasn't small enough and I have the smallest tips available for this type of torch!! I did a bit of research and ended up buying Smiths,,The Little Torch with oxy/acet hook up,,,,  It took me a little time to get used to the difference in "intensity" of the flame but in time I learned to like it a lot. Everything on this page(except the wire wrapped pieces)was done using the Little Torch,,, imageevent.com/tcknkk/jewelry?n=0&z=2&c=4&x=1&m=24&w=0&p=0This isn't jewelery but everything here was also done with the same torch,,,, imageevent.com/tcknkk/metalworkartI've soft soldered,silver soldered,brazed and even gas welded steel with this torch. Those are the "pro's",,,the "con's" are it isn't very good for annealing bigger pieces.I tried annealing 6" square pieces of 16 and 18 guage copper with the biggest tip and ended up using the "B" tank set-up with a big tip. Another point is the black carbon when lighting the torch.Although it is NOT the proper way to light this type of torch/gas,,,I turn the oxygen on just a tad before turning on the acetylene and lighting the torch.This cuts down,or even eliminates the black carbon. The alternative to oxy/acet is oxy/propane BUT you CAN NOT store propane indoors.It's against the law and I would imagine that if there was a fire the insurance company wouldn't pay for the damage. About insurance companies and acetylene in the home,,,,,,I don't know for a fact about this subject,,,, but there are a LOT of plumbers and pipefitters who have "B" tanks in their basements,,,,like me! I think what you may have heard was referring to propane and not acetylene. It's a lot to think about and can be an expensive investment. It would be great if all of us could try different torches and gasses before we spend the money but in most cases we can't and have to rely on research. Some people do fine with a "B" tank set-up,,,some don't. connrock |
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
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Post by Don on Dec 5, 2013 19:07:36 GMT -5
I think I've settled on the air/acetelyene smith torch. multi functional, one tank, and a lot of jewelers seem to prefer it. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 5, 2013 19:39:47 GMT -5
I think I've settled on the air/acetelyene smith torch. multi functional, one tank, and a lot of jewelers seem to prefer it. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. It's what I use. I found the best price here---> store.cyberweld.com/smquaircoou.html |
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 5, 2013 22:14:19 GMT -5
That's the best price I found for the torch too. You will like it for sure
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Dec 6, 2013 12:55:03 GMT -5
That's a great price, and it comes with 3 tips. Thanks for the heads up, I was going to order from ottofrei and buy extra tips; you've just saved me $$$!
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 6, 2013 13:23:08 GMT -5
Acetylene in the trunk of your car...  Transport and store acetylene carefully! Lee |
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Post by 1dave on Dec 6, 2013 13:46:58 GMT -5
Post by Rockoonz on 22 minutes ago
"Acetylene in the trunk of your car..." WOW!
A gang box blew up like that at a powerhouse one morning.
Luckily no one was within 50 feet of it when it went off.
Talk about getting attention and becoming the topic of the next safety meeting!
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 6, 2013 14:10:56 GMT -5
That's a great price, and it comes with 3 tips. Thanks for the heads up, I was going to order from ottofrei and buy extra tips; you've just saved me $$$! Their extra tips are very reasonable too. You might want to get the smaller tip Also buy some extra keys for the tank...they're cheap and come in handy. |
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 14:50:16 GMT -5
Post by Rockoonz on 22 minutes ago "Acetylene in the trunk of your car..." WOW! A gang box blew up like that at a powerhouse one morning. Luckily no one was within 50 feet of it when it went off. Talk about getting attention and becoming the topic of the next safety meeting! - Lee & dave- Tanks don't just explode. Some thing sets it off. What is/are that/those thing(s). Just as a gun does not kill anybody, it takes a person. I suspect that a tank exploding requires a DUI to set it off. DUI = Dumb User Interface |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Dec 6, 2013 15:27:06 GMT -5
I guess it depends on what you plan to use the torch for. I work mostly with Sterling and karat gold and cast both metals in fairly small quantities. I don't like acetylene. It's dirty and with oxy it's too hot for delicate soldering jobs. I use the Smith Little Torch set up for propane/oxy. It's a cooler flame, gentler for jobs like soldering thin prongs, bezels or sizing thin ring shanks. But with a heating tip (Rosebud) it's great for annealing and melting up to 3 ounces of silver or gold for casting. I use large tanks with appropriate regulators and safety equipment.
Rick
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 6, 2013 20:57:50 GMT -5
Rockoonz - Lee & dave- Tanks don't just explode. Some thing sets it off. What is/are that/those thing(s). Just as a gun does not kill anybody, it takes a person. I suspect that a tank exploding requires a DUI to set it off. DUI = Dumb User Interface At the local welding supply house is a photo of an acetylene mishap. The fellow transporting it in his trunk was rear ended in what would have been a minor injury accident except the acetylene went off... both drivers and a passenger died. The DUI is not necessarily the purchaser. They will not load a bottle of acetylene into anything but the back of a pickup strapped to a pallet. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 21:45:35 GMT -5
I had an acetylene setup for a long time. Refills were required in the bed of the truck, but no pallet was required. I had a dolly I strapped it into and strapped that into the bed of the truck. Still a rear ender..... scary......... Thank you Lee.     |
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Post by 1dave on Dec 7, 2013 11:09:57 GMT -5
Post by Rockoonz on 22 minutes ago "Acetylene in the trunk of your car..." WOW! A gang box blew up like that at a powerhouse one morning. Luckily no one was within 50 feet of it when it went off. Talk about getting attention and becoming the topic of the next safety meeting! - Lee & dave- Tanks don't just explode. Some thing sets it off. What is/are that/those thing(s). Just as a gun does not kill anybody, it takes a person. I suspect that a tank exploding requires a DUI to set it off. DUI = Dumb User Interface Scott, on powerhouses under construction there are acetylene and oxygen tanks all over the place. People steal stuff so to keep the torch heads so they can work the next morning, they cut a slice out of the gang box so they can just drop the head in there with the hose dangling out, lock the box, and go home for the night. Apparently somewhere the valves weren't turned off. Someone several stories up started cutting the next morning and sparks came raining down, lit the gas seeping out of the box and set it off. It took two mistakes to fill the box with gas. What if someone had sat on the box that morning and lit a cigarette? |
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