RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 16, 2013 8:24:05 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 14" saw that I transported to S. Louisiana about 6 months ago. It rode on a trailer over typical sub-standard Louisiana highways (i.e. very rough trip) I used it for the first time yesterday and the power feed switch was not cutting off the saw, but since I am rock withdrawal, I used the saw and manually shut it off.
In the middle of my third slab, the power feed quit feeding (saw continued running). The saw is running fine, no binding or anything, just no power feed.
So, what is the first thing I need to check and if necessary, where do I get a new motor?
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Post by catmandewe on Dec 16, 2013 9:38:56 GMT -5
check that the little wire that goes into the windings didn't break loose, if it did then you need to solder it back on.
Tony
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 10:23:09 GMT -5
Does it have a second switch on the left side of the box. There is one on my Lortone 12 and that switch turns off the feed motor. Jim
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 16, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -5
Thanks Tony, I will look at that.
Already checked, Jim.
Thanks
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Post by catmandewe on Dec 16, 2013 11:16:46 GMT -5
sometimes that switch goes bad also, you can try a jumper wire to bypass the switch and see if that is the problem too.
Tony
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 16, 2013 17:14:17 GMT -5
Didn't have to use a jumper wire since the wires and clips were scorched and bubbly. Will attempt to fix with a "similar" (but not exact)switch.
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Post by catmandewe on Dec 16, 2013 18:12:39 GMT -5
Didn't have to use a jumper wire since the wires and clips were scorched and bubbly. Will attempt to fix with a "similar" (but not exact)switch. You can get a brand new switch from Lortone for about 5 or 8 bucks, not too bad. I bought half a dozen a couple years ago and still have not used them all. Tony
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Dec 17, 2013 3:18:49 GMT -5
You have to ask the question - what caused the wires to be all burned up? Either the insulation was bad and one of them shorted to ground or the motor itself shorted internally. There's no reason for wires to be scorched that installing a new switch is going to fix, at least for very long. Though, it might be that the switch that was in the circuit was too wimpy to handle the large current surge when an electric motor starts up. I'd make sure to get a switch rated for a good bit higher current than what was on the saw.
Ok, reading your post again, you said the feed motor stopped in the middle of a cut. That - to me - rules out the switch as being the cause. Either there's a bad connection, a wire shorted, or the motor burned out. There's a guy on Ebay ("butw") that sells replacement motors for the 14" Lortone and also for the 12" that some install into the 14" as the feed is, apparently, too fast with the stock motor. Rick
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 17, 2013 7:20:05 GMT -5
Rick, thanks for taking the time to post. I do have a concern about the actual cause of the switch failure.
Remember, the poor baby had been through a very rough 11 hr. trip to a very humid climate, then in storage for five months. When I pulled the cover off the power drive motor, one of the wires to the power drive switch was loose. I am attributing the feed motor stalling to this. The concern is over the saw switch, which was still functioning even though it was scorched. There is a strong possibility that moisture combined with trauma could be the cause. Although I am very handy at fixing things, I am no electrician. I purchased a HD power tool switch and will work on it this afternoon....fingers crossed.
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Dec 17, 2013 14:39:15 GMT -5
Maybe that wired shorted, then. As long as you reconnect it well the new switch should get you up and running again. Good luck! Rick
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Post by 1dave on Dec 17, 2013 19:10:10 GMT -5
A "scorched" wire suggests a loose connection, arcing, overheating. Another possibility, too small diameter wire for the load.
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 17, 2013 20:12:14 GMT -5
What a quandary! Fixed the loose connection on the power feed switch ...success. However, after replacing the saw switch, the saw runs with the switch in the ON or OFF position...same as before. Again, I am no electrician, but that doesn't compute. I will have to ponder this.
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Post by catmandewe on Dec 17, 2013 20:52:47 GMT -5
Which switch did you replace? One switch runs both the main motor and the feed motor, the other switch only switches the feed motor so you can switch it off and let the saw catch up to the feed motor if it is lagging.
Tony
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 17, 2013 22:19:38 GMT -5
I replaced the main switch.
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Dec 18, 2013 4:42:51 GMT -5
Sounds like you have one of the two wires to the main switch on the wrong contact. How many contacts are on the switch? If there are 3, you need one wire to the middle contact and the other to one of the end contacts. "On" or "closed switch" is usually between the contact that the toggle is *not* pointing to and the center contact(s). If the switch has 4 or 6 contacts either in 2 or 3 pairs, the contacts across from each other, perpendicular to the length of the switch body are common/connected internally. Attaching the wires to both contacts of a pair results in a short (not the bad, fiery kind) circuit and there's no way to "open" the circuit, so the motor will run no matter which way you flip the toggle and you can't turn it off except by unplugging the power cord. Rick
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Dec 18, 2013 4:53:28 GMT -5
Hmmm... You said the saw operated "just like before"(sic) after replacing the switch. That means the wires were connected incorrectly from the git go. Switches are designed to handle lots of current through the toggle mechanism but virtually none between common pairs as they are supposed to be at the same potential. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the high current running through contacts not expected to carry any or very minimal current could have leaked out the smoke that electronic components seem to run on ;-) if the loose wire shorted to ground. Rick ("cyborgsam" on Ebay - aka "Rykk" in the digital art community)
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 18, 2013 7:19:32 GMT -5
See Rick, this is why electricity confuses me. However, the switch has two contacts, same as the old one. It's my assumption that even if I had them reversed it would not make a difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 8:13:36 GMT -5
I am not an electrician either but my thinking runs right along with yours. You should be able to swap the wires either way. They are not to my knowledge directional. It seems to me that the problem is somewhere else and the switch is the weak link that gets fried. Do you have a wire schematic for that box? I installed a new box, motor and switches on my 12 and someone had wired it wrong. Luckily there was a schematic that came with it and I got it straightened out.
I am in the process of packing so I can go mobile to AZ but I have an idea where the schematic is if you need a copy. I can either photograph or scan it for you. If you need it message me because I always forget to go back to a thread. Jim
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
|
Post by RockIt2Me on Dec 18, 2013 8:51:50 GMT -5
Jim, Thanks. I have a schematic also....somewhere. Alot of my stuff is in storage until I can get my shop completed. My hope was to never need it.
I will try an figure it out.
I wonder if the wiring to the aux. outlet might be completing the circuit. I may take that out of the equation since I have never needed it.
Hmmm...
Thanks for all the help.
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rykk
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2011
Posts: 428
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Post by rykk on Dec 19, 2013 3:01:23 GMT -5
Yeah, It sounds like the switch is doing nothing and whatever 2 wires are connected to it are connected to each other elsewhere or through some other component. Your main switch should have one of the two wires entering the saw from the power cord connected to it. The second contact on your switch should then go to some sort of terminal block or wire nut where it connects to wires that go to your main motor and to your feed motor. Typically, this would be the white wire from your power cord that goes to the switch. The black wire from the cord should connect directly either by wire nuts or at a terminal block to one wire to the main motor and one to the feed motor. Unless they are "daisy chained", in which case the black would go to one of the motors' contacts where a second wire is also connected that then goes to one of the contacts on the other motor.
The key is that the white wire in the power cord coming into the saw chassis should go straight to one of the contacts on/into the main switch and nowhere else. It is the other wire from the "output" contact (they're not labelled - it's just the function of the second contact) of that switch which should then go to connect with one contact on each motor either by having two wires connected to it like a Y, one for each motor, or in the daisy chain fashion I described.
If there is some sort of "aux outlet", that might be where the problem lies. If this outlet is supposed to be live even when the saw is shut off by the main switch, chances are that the white and black wires from the power cord will go there first. (the green - earth ground - should be screwed down to metal on the saw chassis) But the only place a wire that *should* be connected to the same contact the white wire from the power cord is connected to on the aux outlet should go is to the switch. If there are any other wire(s) connected to that terminal where the white wire is on the aux connector and it/they go to the motors, then that would explain why the switch doesn't break the circuit like it should. Think of it this way: Take a straight pvc water pipe, cut it at 2 places, install a tee at each, install a hose between the 2 tee outlets. And then, make a cut between the two tees on the pipe and install a valve. Even if you turn the valve completely closed, there'll still be water coming out the end of the pipe because the water valve(switch) "circuit" has been shorted/bypassed by the tees and hose. BUT - if the aux outlet is supposed to be turned off by the switch, as well, then the previous paragraph will hold true and the white power cord wire will go to the switch and the second contact on the switch should have a wire that goes to one contact on the outlet.
Note - It's possible they might have decided to switch the "hot" rather than "line" leads and, in that case, everywhere I mentioned "white", just substitute "black" as that will be the wire that is switched instead. Hope I've helped, Rick
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