blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Dec 31, 2013 20:35:23 GMT -5
I am running 4 double 3 lb. in a closet in my bedroom. They are quite. I took carpet foam, put 2, 18" X 18" tile on the foam then set my tumblers on the tile, installed a exterior door. Bingo, a quite room. I think the tumbler with the barrels in a box is for sound.
James
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Dec 31, 2013 22:37:26 GMT -5
Sun, in winter???
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Mark K
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Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,755
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Post by Mark K on Jan 1, 2014 0:08:00 GMT -5
I tried the RV antifreeze thing a few years ago. It made an odd smell which made me wonder if it wasn't reacting with the rubber barrel. I did not like the way it smelled and the barrels are not cheap. I stopped and do not plan to jeopardize my barrels again.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 1, 2014 13:04:16 GMT -5
Most antifreeze has some kind of glycol in it. I would shy away from it myself if it did indeed contain a glycol. It can be irritating to the skin, it can also be reactive with certain combinations of metals and certain chemicals which our rocks may or may not contain. I'm no chemist .... I'd keep a close eye on it if tried.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jan 1, 2014 13:31:34 GMT -5
I am talking windshield washer fluid for winter conditions, I think it just has some methyl hydrate added to it, not glycol. Not sure though
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Jon
starting to shine!
Member since June 2011
Posts: 41
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Post by Jon on Jan 4, 2014 15:52:13 GMT -5
Remember that the friction in the barrel from the grinding rocks also produces heat. So, while a motor drawing 1 amp might not generate as much heat as a 100 watt light bulb, conservation of energy would tell you the net heat produced by the motor and the friction of the grinding rock should be fairly close to a 100 watt light bulb in the end. That energy is going somewhere, it just gets converted to rotational/kinetic energy before finally being converted back to heat through friction, which is great since that heat being produced is in the barrel where you need to prevent freezing. From experience, I would guess my slurry typically runs about 15 - 20 degrees F higher than ambient in my 12# barrels.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jan 4, 2014 16:53:13 GMT -5
Sounds about right to me, all I was saying is that any kind of inductive load that operates on AC consumes energy that is not true watts. We sure don't need an electrical lecture here:) My tumblers, esp the rotory, puts out lots of heat, if they were running in any kind of insulated box they would not freeze up, even on another crappy day like today:(
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Post by nowyo on Jan 8, 2014 23:11:01 GMT -5
Finally made it back to this thread. Windshield washer fluid contains methanol. As long as you stick with the basic cheap stuff it shouldn't be a problem, unless your barrels are made of Tygon or Viton, and I know they aren't. The jug of RV antifreeze out in the shop says it contains ethanol, propylene glycol, and potassium phosphate. The ethanol and potassium phosphate will react with Buna N and EPDM, which could explain the weird smell that Foxtail experienced. If a person had some straight propylene glycol and cut it 50/50 with water it would most likely work fine except that it would be thicker than just water and might inhibit the grit action. My interest in the whole subject was using an unlined metal tumbler, which I've got running now with just rocks, grit, and water. Figure the tumbling action alone should keep it from freezing to about 0 F. Reckon to find out anyway.
Russ
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Jan 9, 2014 3:49:22 GMT -5
It will freeze up long before zero degrees. I have tried it and found that once you hit the lower 20s, you are going to have issues. The RV antifreeze worked, I just did not like the smell I found with it. Barrels are not cheap and I did not know if it was ruining them or not so I chose to error on the side of caution.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,558
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Post by jamesp on Jan 9, 2014 10:15:38 GMT -5
Yes. About 20-25 degrees it will start forming ice. My experience too foxtail.
I have tumbled with metals together w/rocks and ruined them from the stain. And tumbled a lot of crazy stuff other than rocks. The tumbler brings out the worst in chemicals.
Consider the inert character of rocks + grit + water. That is a very harmless brew. Grit is basically silica and very non-reactive/inert. Same w/ceramic media and HDPE, totally non-reactive.
Not much different than nature's process.
How about salt ? A natural anti-freeze. Rust could be an issue. Ocean water freezes at 27F. I am sure if you increased the percentage the freeze point would drop.
Any way, salt seems harmless other than rust.
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Post by nowyo on Jan 9, 2014 19:39:56 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your experience. That sugar mix you've spoken of in the past would probably lower the freezing point some, James. Think water and if it gets that cold move the tumbler to a heated area.
Russ
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,558
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Post by jamesp on Jan 9, 2014 20:20:32 GMT -5
I feel the best solution is a cover.
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 9, 2014 20:23:43 GMT -5
In Siberia, where it gets very far below zero, they build reindeer-hide shelters maybe 20 x 20 feet. Then they make another hide-walled shelter inside just large enough to contain a bed(I don't recall what the floor's made of but I'm sure it's not bare ground.) In a documentary I saw, a European visitor was told he'd be sleeping in the little enclosure with no heat when it was around minus 60F outside. He was amazed that after a while he threw off his covers and slept nude. His body heat was entirely sufficient to keep the little space warm. I've never enclosed my tumblers for fear of starting a house fire from a burned-out motor.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,558
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Post by jamesp on Jan 9, 2014 20:31:47 GMT -5
Good point. It sure could be a fire hazard.
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Mattatya
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2012
Posts: 452
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Post by Mattatya on Jan 10, 2014 4:44:53 GMT -5
I would try the salt as suggested. Antifreeze seems more harmful to nature and pets.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 10, 2014 10:14:17 GMT -5
"Pink" RV Antifreeze, used to winterize the drinking water systems in RV's is non toxic and can be dumped right onto the ground without fear of animals getting hurt drinking it. Not that I am saying to run out and buy some just to dump and see what happens!!! It has to be cut (50/50) with water to activate it's antifreeze capability. It will cause the slurry to thicken up a little quicker because antifreeze by design, is thicker so it can pull and retain heat better than water.
I would do test runs before using salt to any degree. Salt, is a corrosive and also a crystal and can etch softer stones,not to mention you would really have to do a thorough job of cleaning out the barrel so as not to have salt crystals forming in it as it dries which could scratch a rock going into pre-polish, although separate barrels for rough & polish would negate this.
Ultimately, you have to decide what to try, and do so with equipment that you can live with if damaged, That's why I like Chicago electric tumblers so much... They're fairly cheap and no biggie if I have to get another! If you can afford a Chicago Elec unit, get a 2 barrel unit and do 1 barrel with salt and 1 with Pink RV Antifreeze, let them tumble for the same amount of time and treat them as you would a regular tumbler and see what happens, take notes and post results here for all to share in your discoveries/successes/failures. There is a certain amount of learning we all go through and that is why this hobby continues to grow/expand... you could be the next forerunner of a new concept in tumbling !!
Running a tumbler in a box w/the motor is a good way to keep the barrels warm and unfrozen. Places on a concrete floor outside the concrete will actually draw some of the heat out of the motor, cooling it, bu if you are still concerned about over heating, you can always drill a few small holes in the the side of the box to let in a little cool air, and, t the same time if you attach a sliding cover over the holes you can better regulate the amount of air getting inside, like they do when they partially cover a radiator on a big tractor/trailer truck (I used a piece of cardboard back in CT during the winter and covered a little more than a third of my radiator, to find the balance between heat and cold so the tumbler stays running.
Well this is more than 2 cents worth, so I'll say this is my Obama approved, inflation calculated, 9.8 cents worth of opinion!!
Good Luck with it!!
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blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Jan 11, 2014 19:07:14 GMT -5
I do think everybody for the feedback I have received. It has been a big help. All the barrels on this tumbler are made of PVC pipe. Too big to bring inside and way too noisy. I think I will thy wiper fluid. Forget the salt, that kills grass.
James
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rocksolid
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2014
Posts: 15
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Post by rocksolid on Jan 25, 2014 21:13:48 GMT -5
I just put some Crisco in mine.
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,755
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Post by Mark K on Jan 25, 2014 22:46:23 GMT -5
That is an interesting idea.
However, if the rock is porous, you may never get all of the oil out of it.
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Post by kap on Jan 25, 2014 23:44:54 GMT -5
Be sure to check the cold rating on the wiper fluid a lot of it will freeze!
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