blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Dec 30, 2013 23:14:23 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone has used windshield washer fluid or rv antifreeze in the barrels in the winter? I would like to move mine to the back porch.
James
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2013 23:49:24 GMT -5
Never tried it but I don't see why windshield washer fluid won't work, it's mostly water with mythle hydrate (sp). Should carry the grit fine. Some of the pro's should chime in
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Post by nowyo on Dec 31, 2013 0:21:57 GMT -5
Interesting because I had been pondering on doing the same thing. My new tumbler is going to be noisy and I already have more load on the circuit my tumblers are on than I'd really like. I may give it a shot next week, depending on the weather.
Russ
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2013 5:18:21 GMT -5
The motor generates a good bit of heat. If you put it on the concrete floor and cover it w/an old cooler or cardboard box and a blanket it should survive some really cold temps.
A one amp motor is not much different than a 100 watt light bulb. And most tumblers probably draw an amp.
I personally would stay away from additives. Like water and grit is about as inert as it gets. Tumbling silica base rocks can be very inert. But glass and obsidian can create a lot of gas. So it can get complicated for weird reasons. It can be a cheap experiment if you have a small tumbler to try it with.
I add sugar to my polish. To lubricate and thicken the slurry. It is an old practice. But i would be concerned about adding much else during the polish stage. Why tumble if you risk getting a polish.
It is a cheap experiment to cover the tumbler. If it is sitting on the ground/concrete you will have the advantage of ground warmth. Would not surprise me if the cover fits tight that it may get too hot.
I have mine in an unheated green house. The buckets of water often freeze that are sitting around the tumbler. But Montana is a whole different animal than my Georgia.! And that kind of cold is scary.
my 2 cents
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2013 8:29:23 GMT -5
Morning James
Well its -40F here today, not sure the co0lor idea will work here LOL. I never thought about any kind of reaction, an experiment is in order. I would try the washer fluid, easier to dispose of I guess, maybe just put a little in the barrel and see if the fluid hurts the barrel at all. Then like you said run a test in a small batch and see. My chemistry skills have all but been forgotten but I doubt the alchohol in the fluid would do much. Worth a shot just to see.
Just a bit of a correction on your motor calculation. Some of that one amp that a particular motor draws is "reactive" current, this is the current used to turn the motor into a big magnet. Reactive current produces no heat (Watts) but rather VARs (Volt-Amp reactive). So a one amp motor won't produce the same heat as 1 amp of incandecent light (both at the same voltage). Granted a motor produces some heat from friction in the bearings etc, but not enough to make up the balance. Minor point but its the instructor in me, sorry:)
Bottom line though, your idea is great with the cooler, these motors do produce lots of heat and a good cooler over the whole thing plus moving water would likely work down to a certain temperature (experiment needed LOL). In our part of the world I would put the tumbler on a piece of hard insulation and not direct to concrete.
Anyway don't mind my ramblings, still have not had a full cup of coffee:)
Take care
Tom
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Post by Peruano on Dec 31, 2013 9:34:46 GMT -5
Good responses here. This is how the forum is intended to work with informed and deliberate perspectives. I suspect movement and some heat protected by insulation will let most of us tumble in unheated or only slightly protected sites during the winter. And for those who live Montana way, I'd say come visit or send us your best rocks and we will keep the process going in warmer climates. Cheers, and Happy (Safe) New Year to all. Tom
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 31, 2013 9:44:43 GMT -5
awhile back I seen a picture of a cool plywood box someone built for their tumbler to go into and it had a simple $5 light fixture that had a 100 watt bulb and that kept his lortone 12lb barrel from freezing out in a shed but I do not remember at what temperature.
Chuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 31, 2013 10:15:37 GMT -5
The one I seen was similar to this one but it had lights for warmth too. This one does have heat insulator pads but they are losing the motor heat by sectioning it off. Chuck
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2013 11:09:12 GMT -5
I have a 1/8 HP turning a 40 pound barrel at 25 RPM and that motor is pretty hot. I am sure that it close to full load amps. The other one is 1/3 HP and runs 4 barrels and it runs pretty warm. I guess it depends on how much load the motor has. I have seen motors run cool. That is interesting point that it may not run warm. A light bulb is a great idea. As is those heat cables from a common hardware store that have a built in thermostat. I have used them in my well house many years. And the ground probably gets frozen so insulating the floor makes sense too. What about one of these w/a built in thermostat is as cheap as it gets. Or a heating pad of the quality used for dog houses. www.ebay.com/itm/Frost-King-HC12-Electric-Water-Metal-Plastic-PVC-Pipe-12-Heat-Cable-/200970350105This one is rated at 126 watts. www.pexuniverse.com/senphus-7fhpc-18-electric-radiant-pipe-heating-cable
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Post by parfive on Dec 31, 2013 11:42:14 GMT -5
Indoor/outdoor thermometer – stick one of the remotes in the enclosure.
Memory will track high/low temp.
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blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Dec 31, 2013 11:43:24 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input. I should have explained the reason I would like to have it on the back porch. It is hand built and big, 48 inches tall, 40 inches wide, and 27 inches deep. It will hold 10, 3 pound barrels and 4, 12 pound barrels. I built this tumbler 2 years ago. It has never been used. I did plug it to see if every thing worked as it should then moved it to storage. I live in Webbers Falls, OK. At night it may drop to the low teens. I think I will try one outside. I have a 33B with PVC barrels and wiper fluid. Will let you know if it works. Have a happy New Year.
James
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blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Dec 31, 2013 11:52:28 GMT -5
I forgot, this tumbler is on legs and is run by a 1/2 HP motor.
James
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2013 13:37:29 GMT -5
You can set it up and cover it. Then run it dry and use the I/O thermometer like Rich mentioned and see what happens.
I can tell you if you are rolling 50 pounds of rock you should have some heat from the motor. A couple of comforter blankets and a tarp may do the trick.
Love to see some photos.
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
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Post by quartz on Dec 31, 2013 14:14:31 GMT -5
I think some sort of thermometer to be a good idea, with regular monitoring. I run a 363 watt [measured] motor on a tumbler set, and it keeps our insulated 14x16 foot shed well above freezing when it gets down around 10F here. An acquaintance of ours built an insulated box around his 1/3HP driven tumbler on his porch for noise and freezing control, and burned the motor up, got too hot.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2013 14:33:01 GMT -5
That has been my experience Larry. I have to keep mine out of the sun or else the motor gets to hot. Even in the winter. I was certain that a small enclosure would probably over heat.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2013 16:55:50 GMT -5
Yes the motor should provice enough heat to keep the barrel from freezing esp. with good insulation. I will be interesting in how the OP makes out with the washer fluid. Chuck I wonder if that picture is more for sound insulation rather than freeze protection? Leaving the motor open for cooling but keeping the rock noise down? If it is for stopping the barrel's from freezing they are loosing out on a lot of wasted heat by not using the motor heat.
Take care all
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 31, 2013 17:01:51 GMT -5
I'd love to put my tumblers in a sound proof box, but haven't done so for fear of overheating the motor. I have three tumblers in the basement. The Lortone 33b and Lot-O can't really be heard upstairs unless it's really quiet and you listen really carefully. Then I added the Lortone QT66 and it's much easier to hear upstairs. I hadn't really thought of building a box that didn't enclose the motor. I'll have to see if there's room to build around just the barrels.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2013 17:04:04 GMT -5
Its actually a great idea, and you could mount a cooling fan to blow across the motor as well.
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 31, 2013 17:20:16 GMT -5
Just move south. I'm in Quartzsite in a tee shirt.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2013 19:57:04 GMT -5
Ah John, wish I could:) Its so freaking cold up here right now its nuts. Its 20 degrees C colder than normal!!!!
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