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Post by Pat on Jan 7, 2014 1:54:36 GMT -5
A friend asked me: Why won't this work? I have an 18 inch rock saw I fixed / cleaned / aligned everything. It hums...... I put water in ...not cutting oil. I put a A+++ chunk of amethyst sage agate in the vise and slowly feed it in before adding weight to pull the vise. All was well for about 2 inches into the material .................then it doesn't want to cut --- even with too much weight . I tried again with another rock setup ---- the same results. The idea of using water instead of oil is extremely compelling soooooo there must be some defined reason why it will not work.......  ?? enlighten me. Lightless |
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 7, 2014 8:47:54 GMT -5
sounds to me, not being able to see it as 2 possibilities right off the top of my head....
1) Dull Blade will cut into material while it is thin, but as it gets thicker won't cut. Try cutting a chunk of Obsidian to see if it will cut, maybe time to replace the blade
2) Something is stopping the weight from dropping/maintaining weight against carriage. Have them remove stone and place weights on and hand lower the weights/carriage until it gets to the end, if it stops there is your problem. maybe vise is twisting with weight on it/in it.
I'm sure others will chime in, just thoughts off the top of my head!
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 7, 2014 9:12:16 GMT -5
Hmmm. What Mario said plus blade kerf/edge may be too rounded from wear which can jamb it up as the rock cross section gets wider and the blade gets deeper in the stone. Also, water is not a good coolant for larger blades and may contribute to the blade binding in the cut. Blade may also be dished ( bigger the blade, more this becomes a problem) which can also cause binding....Mel
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Post by roy on Jan 7, 2014 10:13:47 GMT -5
take the rock out check to see if the carrage go's past the blade?
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Post by Pat on Jan 7, 2014 10:48:21 GMT -5
Friend says:
New blade, running true
vise and vise travel is smooth
Can water as coolant cause the blade to dull?
(It wants to stop cutting when is is going through about 4 inches of rock)
Thanks. John
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 11:37:19 GMT -5
Pat, Yes water coolant WILL (does) cause the blade to dull. I ran into this problem (on the same agate!) when I tried water in my saw. The agate wears down the diamond faster than the metal bonding the diamonds to the blade. If one looks carefully at the blade; the viewer will see no exposed diamonds and therefore no cutting. LarryS uses water all the time and regularly dresses his blade with a "medium grinding wheel from Lowe's". I tried this. I found I needed to cut a 4" cut thru this grinding wheel to dress my 24" blade back to cutting shape again. I removed the water and added oil. Larry may add some insight about dressing and frequency on a 10" saw that he utilizes. |
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Post by stoner on Jan 7, 2014 16:49:18 GMT -5
I will give John a call and go over to his house to help him.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 7, 2014 23:48:44 GMT -5
Water does not cool or lubricate well enough to use for cutting hard materials like agate. Doing so will cause the diamonds on the cutting edge of blade to glaze over with metal residue and this will stop the cutting action. And a glazed over or dull blade puts additional strain on the saw components which can lead to other problems. One might get away with using water cutting agates on a 10" or smaller saw for a while but it will take it's toll on the equipment. I would suggest to your friend that they drain the water and dry the saw well. Then add a quality cutting oil, dress the blade a few times to get rid of the glazing, and then enjoy slabbing. Life is too short to spend it fighting physics.  |
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 7, 2014 23:57:56 GMT -5
I only use straight water on my 4 inch saw, and then only with opal. I use water with an additive the rest of the time in the 4 and always in the 6 inch saw. All the rest use oil.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,357
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Post by quartz on Jan 8, 2014 0:01:54 GMT -5
Water is an excellent coolant, normally in a flood the operation environment, but a poor lubricant. Rock sawing needs not only the cooling ability of oil, but also the lubricating capability to help the blade run smoothly thru the cut, as there is always rubbing. The higher viscosity [thicker] of the oil also better helps the fluid carry cuttings out of the kerf.
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Post by Pat on Jan 8, 2014 21:03:18 GMT -5
Friend John says:
Thanks everybody SOOOOOO .....oil is a mess and it stinks ..... years in kitty litter helps a little....
Anybody got any easy clean oil? Did anyone try 'soft' water?
Thanks John
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jollyrockhound
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2013
Posts: 409
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Post by jollyrockhound on Jan 8, 2014 21:12:07 GMT -5
Friend John says: Thanks everybody SOOOOOO .....oil is a mess and it stinks ..... years in kitty litter helps a little.... Anybody got any easy clean oil? Did anyone try 'soft' water? Thanks John Ok yes water is the worst for bigger saws that is why you can only cut a bit thru saw blade goes dual Two words Paraflex HT made by petro canada does not stink at all and is not toxic. very good oil and cheap!! Good luck with whatever you choose but do not use water on anything other than a 10 inch if you want to save your blade;) |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 23:26:10 GMT -5
Friend John says: Thanks everybody SOOOOOO .....oil is a mess and it stinks ..... years in kitty litter helps a little.... Anybody got any easy clean oil? Did anyone try 'soft' water? Thanks John I am using horse laxative mineral oil. Cuts are quiet. My skin is supple. It's food grade and odorless. I learned it here! It's a dream. |
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jspencer
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2011
Posts: 929
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Post by jspencer on Jan 8, 2014 23:52:28 GMT -5
For 3 years I have used laxative grade mineral oil in my 14" saw using a continuous rim blade. The blade shows no sign of wear either. And although it is sold in pint bottles at the grocery store it comes out to $12 gal. It gets to smelling only when it needs to be cleaned. You can always add some baby oil to make it smell nice.
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Jasper-hound
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 208
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Post by Jasper-hound on Jan 9, 2014 1:40:51 GMT -5
Look at the edge of your blade. If it is rounded (not square), it will not cut far into a rock before binding.
Replace with a new blade.
I cut with oil from Johnson Bros. Lapidary supply ... great price. Great oil.
Do not cut rocks with water in a slab saw.
Good luck.
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Post by bobby1 on Jan 11, 2014 10:41:09 GMT -5
Water isn't a good coolant because at the point of contact between the blade and the rock it flashes to steam due to the friction. Steam isn't a good heat conductor so it doesn't carry away the heat at the point of contact. Most oils have a higher flash point so it stays liquid at the point of contact as well as lubricating things there. For smaller saws (up to 10") water is OK, though.
Bob
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 20, 2014 22:58:55 GMT -5
for a trim saw, a mix of water & RV (pink) anti-freeze works well and helps prevent rust from forming on blade. If you are only cutting hard rock, I would suggest mineral oil/baby oil/horse laxative (all the same basically), the only difference between them is the baby oil has fragrance added so your rocks will smell pretty as you cut them !!  For anything over 8 inches I would go oil only as it is a slab/trim saw at 10 inches and if you're gonna slab you really want oil. If you go the oil route, I would suggest a bucket of Kitty Litter/speedy dry in a 5 gallon bucket next to the saw to dry your pieces as you cut them, or a bucket of degreaser mixed with water although I have found the speedy dry/kitty litter works better. and kitty litter can be cheaper to buy than speedy dry!! hopefully this helps, and we are always here to answer questions as needed!! Keep on Rockin'!!! |
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Post by Pat on Jan 21, 2014 13:33:06 GMT -5
Friend John says:
Thanks to all for your input.
I gave up on water on my 18 inch (for the time being).
I am now using Coolgrind 960 oil in my 18 inch.
It does not stink.
Over the weekend I have cut many slabs of amethyst sage and other material without any problems so I'm a happy boy.
Soooo now I have very pretty oily slabs -- how do I REALLY get rid of the oil? (drip / wipe / kitty litter . I will get some Speedy Dry to try) then what?
Anybody got some easy process that works well for the remaining oil?
Thanks. John
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 14:00:45 GMT -5
kitty litter is used in my shed.
$6 at walmart will last more than a year.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jan 21, 2014 22:48:15 GMT -5
for agate, kitty litter is enough as the oil doesn't really penetrate agate... for anything soft, a bucket of "whip it" or some other 'natural citrus degreaser will work... drop the slabs in it and let sit for an hour while you continue slabbing, then pull them out, run a srub brush over then and rinse.. set out in the sun to dry (if you are south of the border like me) or some place warm to dry.
I used to use a citrus based degreaser called whip it, got it at sam's club, kinda like BJ's, a bulk buy store. I mixed 1 cup to 3 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket and would drop in all my slabs cut for the day, let sit over night and scrub and rinse the next day while cutting more slabs, then while they were drying, the next batch would be going into the bucket to soak. Whip It was 3.50/gallon and would last a long time.
I used it without the kitty litter for everything and never had a problem, the kitty litter works well if you leave it in for a day, but as I said in the beginning, you may need to soak softer material as it may pull some oil into the material. and I do mean really soft material, stuff normally used for carving.
The nicest part of citrus base, is you can pour it onto the ground without any environment damage worries. and if you use minerl oil, it is non toxic & food safe so no animal worries there either.
Good Luck either way, let us know what you decide!!
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?? enlighten me. 
