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Post by Jugglerguy on May 12, 2014 20:23:30 GMT -5
Lately I've been doing washes between different tumbling stages in my Lot-O. Some people refer to this as burnishing, but from what I've read, burnishing is different from washing. So after each stage, I run my tumbler with about a half cup of water and some Dreft or Borax. My question is, how long is optimal? I've seen a lot of people run a wash stage for several hours; four hours or even over night. I've been doing a couple shorter washes. The first wash usually only goes a half hour or so and the water is pretty dirty. Then I run another wash a little longer and the water still shows signs that it's done some good. It seems to me that two or three short washes of an hour or less makes more sense than washes for four hours or so. How much more dirt is removed in such a long tumble? Isn't it better to get that dirty water changed quicker?
Do you wash between stages? If so, how long? Why?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 12, 2014 20:36:52 GMT -5
I think quite a few of us are using very similar grits and times for our loto stages but I think the wash and burnish methods are we we all probably differ the most.
At the end of each stage I squirt a little dawn dish soap in the barrel and add about a half cup of water. I let that run about ten minutes then turn it off and pour the rocks into a clean strainer and rinse thouroughly. next I dump the rocks into a tupperware bowl and fill with hot water and swish them around a bunch by hand. next the rocks go back in the barrel wet with two tablespoons of borax and enough water for good movement for about an hour. last step is one final rinse and a swishing in a bowl of clean hot water. I do this at every stage.
did I mention I spend a whole lot of time with my tumbles every week, lol
chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 12, 2014 20:58:43 GMT -5
The time you put in produces some great results, so I think that time is worthwhile.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on May 13, 2014 11:42:20 GMT -5
was I the only one willing to give up my secrets?
I am sure I error on the cautious side and over do my cleanings but it beats the alternative.
Chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 13, 2014 12:47:56 GMT -5
While I value your opinion Chuck, I was hoping for more responses too. Maybe I should have waited until after the tumbling contest to ask.
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stephent
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 213 
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Post by stephent on May 13, 2014 13:07:30 GMT -5
I rinse...very well..wash barrel out..add 1-2 tbsp Borax...and more water then I use with grit back in (top of rocks or so)...tumble for an hour or several/overnite depending on what I am doing at the time. I rinse again...washing the barrel out very well. Add stones back..another tbsp of borax..about a cup of water and tumble for another hour to several. Depending on what the water looks like after the second burnishing/rinse I may/may not do it the third time. When I say I "rinse"..I mean I use the sprayer hose on kitchen sink with as high a pressure as it has while stones are in a colander and move the stones around a lot with my free hand. And I catch the dirty water and grit in a separate large diameter pan so it doesn't go down the drain! If I have stones with holes/cracks/crevices in them I will put them into a large bowl covered with warm water and mix them around a lot! and look at water (bottom of white bowl shows grit well) to see if any grit comes out after 2 rinses. If any at all shows..back into a 3rd or 4th rinse even. Cleanliness is next to polishness...or something along those lines.  |
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 13, 2014 13:25:47 GMT -5
Thanks Stephen. What I'm really curious about is whether each rinse should be 30 minutes or four hours or overnight. Does the time of the rinse matter? Would four half hour rinses be as good as four overnight rinses? Keep the opinions coming. If anyone has more concrete evidence, I'd love to hear it.
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stephent
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 213
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Post by stephent on May 13, 2014 14:40:06 GMT -5
I would think four 1 hour or so rinses/burnishes will get most of the crud out/off of the stones. More might come off or out...but it's just as likely to find a new spot to roost as it is finding it's way out in any more time then just a few hours. There's "some" reasoning behind Borax "burnishing" the stones instead of just as a wash. I would believe a longer final wash with Borax might actually "burnish" (true burnish..not just wash) in the final wash after polishing. But it's a mild abrasive...probably not benefit much before final polish wash though. Just be aware it's slightly caustic (a ph of about 9-9.5) and might not be something to use with some types of stones.
Looks to me like a soap with a surfectant in it would be fine for a final washout since it will keep fine particles in suspension during the final "burnish"/wash cycle. Might not do any harm in a grit washout cycle or two before polish even...if it doesn't react or harm certain types of stones.
And as usual.. I will post my complete and total denial of this theory's plausibility ..and will absolve myself of any or all outcomes if used...or any responsibility if someone uses any or all of any information I may ever post.
(just covering my butt in light of recent events with the standard "plausible deniability" clause)
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Steve
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2005
Posts: 506
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Post by Steve on May 13, 2014 16:16:58 GMT -5
I do about an hour, unless I get busy or distracted. Haven't noticed any difference between one hour or several hours.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on May 13, 2014 17:01:03 GMT -5
I'm my uv I only add some soap after polish to get the haze of the alOx of the rocks. Every other stage I spray wash each rock with my pump sprayer.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on May 13, 2014 17:01:59 GMT -5
... and only for a hour or so. The only reason I go longer is because I get busy with other stuff.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,548
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Post by tkvancil on May 14, 2014 9:57:22 GMT -5
I have only one vibe run under my belt so am still developing my routine. What I did with the first batch was very similar to what Chuck does, almost exactly. I also tend to spend a lot of time on my tumbles.
Couple of opinions. I think that having soap in the process somewhere is helpful. The bubbles are what traps dirt and helps carry it out with the rinse. Secondly I don't think there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to cleaning, especially before polish. When in doubt I'd do an extra clean and rinse. Once did a 72 hour wash cycle in my rotary with fresh water and borax everyday. I do think that 2 or more short washes would be the way to go vs. one long wash.
Hope to see some more people share their methods as well.
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Thunder69
Cave Dweller
Thunder 2000-2015
Member since January 2009
Posts: 3,105
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Post by Thunder69 on May 14, 2014 10:22:02 GMT -5
I don't Really wash between stages ..I clean them with a high pressure nozzle and make sure there is no grit residue from the last stage ...I add about 2 tbsp of borax to the 500 grit stage...Run 2 days...Rinse again and do 50/50 polish and borax ...Then when they are done I wash again ...Put every thing back in with a 1/2 cup borax ,I like to go at least 12-24 hours in it...Then I wash it in the sink with HOT water...I think it helps remove the borax residue and gives it that extra oomph... John
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on May 14, 2014 18:08:57 GMT -5
This thread has been great as I've been wondering the exact same thing especially being a newbie to all of this. Since I'm still running rotary till the $$ is available for a vibe, I'd love to hear what some of the "totally tumbled" folks have to say about this as I suspect there are some variations, but it's still just as critical for outstanding results. I have picked up the habit of a borax run between every cycle from #3 through polish sometimes 2 cycles with a total rinse and scrubbing out of the barrels.
Would liquid dishsoap work/work better (or anything else other than borax) in a tumbler - I'd figure the constant action would produce too much foam and possibly cause problems - so any opinions or tips from the "totally tumbled" crowd??
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 383
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Post by 1nickthegreek on May 14, 2014 18:12:25 GMT -5
I start adding borax on the second day when I rinse and reload, than after 48 hours on each step I add more borax and water and do this until the water comes out clean, then I do a dawn soap and water cycle for 12+ hours. Then everything is washed off in the sink with HOT water and the spray head.
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77 
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Post by moogie on May 15, 2014 21:27:46 GMT -5
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but does anyone use pellets between the 60/90 and 120/220 stages? Is it OK to use the same pellets you used in the first stage for the between stage washout, or is that asking for trouble?
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,548
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Post by tkvancil on May 16, 2014 9:33:51 GMT -5
Moogie
If you have used pellets in a particular stage you can do your between stage wash with those pellets still in the load. Even though the pellets are washed they should still not be moved to the next stage. Plastic pellets should always be dedicated to one grit only, for grind or wash.
azgnoinc
I use ivory bar soap shavings. A citrus zester makes some nice small shavings. Have also used original formula polmolive. Some use powdered laundry detergents like tide or dreft. You don't want anything with bleach or a lot of additives which is why I chose ivory, 99.4% pure soap. The foaming hasn't seemed to cause me any problems after all the wash is a relatively short run.
I have had more rocks break in the rotary wash than any other stage. I think it's from the extra water. These days after my rocks, soap/borax and water are in the barrel I'll add plastic pellets to about 1/2 inch below the barrel rim. Haven't had one break since.
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on May 16, 2014 20:11:15 GMT -5
azgnoinc I use ivory bar soap shavings. A citrus zester makes some nice small shavings. Have also used original formula polmolive. Some use powdered laundry detergents like tide or dreft. You don't want anything with bleach or a lot of additives which is why I chose ivory, 99.4% pure soap. The foaming hasn't seemed to cause me any problems after all the wash is a relatively short run. I have had more rocks break in the rotary wash than any other stage. I think it's from the extra water. These days after my rocks, soap/borax and water are in the barrel I'll add plastic pellets to about 1/2 inch below the barrel rim. Haven't had one break since. Good deal I appreciate the info. I've been using the plastic pellets, but think I need to add more now to get less pitting and hopefully a better end result shine. |
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dshanpnw
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2020
Posts: 1,197
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Post by dshanpnw on Feb 2, 2021 15:40:38 GMT -5
Hello, I want to know how to clean the rocks between stages especially before pre-polish and then before polish. I use a UV-10 vibratory tumbler. I have been cleaning between every stage. I pour about a cup of water in the bowl and turn it on for about 15 minutes to wash the grit off the rocks for an easier cleanout. Then after rinsing I use the same amount of water as with a grit stage and add Ivory soap and run for about an hour. Should I be using more water for this cleaning? Drummond Island Rocks (Chuck) says enough so the there is good movement in the rocks. I like that answer and will follow it from now on. I have tried water to the top of the rocks so as to create a real bath or washing effect to see what would happen, but there was very little to no movement. Too much water doesn't work. I used both Ivory and Borax together and separately. I'm not sure if I prefer one over the other. I think doing several shorter cleanouts would be a good idea especially if the water is really gray. Thanks for all the help. I have been tumbling now for a little over three months. I am getting very good results with a shine, but I must do a better job eliminating cracks and pits. I think I am good on burnishing except for maybe how long I should do it for, 4 hours or more? Thanks again so much everyone.
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