bschultz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 234
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Post by bschultz on May 5, 2004 9:26:07 GMT -5
If all looks well when I check my stones when I get home from work today I will be going to pre-polish. Anybody have any tips or advice on this step. ie. How much pre- polish grit should I use in a 15 lb barrel? Can I re-use the pre-polish as I have heard you can with the polish? Do they usually need to run for a week before checking? This load is a mix of agate, pet wood, quartz and some of my saw drop off consisting of tigar eye, obsidian and other stuff that who knows what it is. I believe this is where a cushioning agent and maybe some sort of soap (beads, wood chips etc. becomes important). Yes? No? I value this boards opinions so any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob
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Post by rockyraccoon on May 5, 2004 20:47:58 GMT -5
bob i use the same amount of pre-polish as the grit that i used in the prior stages. i use lots of pellets, run it for a week and i don't save it. i don't add anything extra besides the pellets in this stage but i did try the corn syrup in the polish last time and had good results.
kim
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bwalters
has rocks in the head
Member since March 2004
Posts: 557
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Post by bwalters on May 6, 2004 0:01:37 GMT -5
Hi All and Bob, The very knowledgeable lady at the Alamo Rock Shop in Boerne recommends 1 lb of pre-polish for a 15 lb barrel used with plastic pellets. She says that the pre-polish breaks down so that it would not be reusable. She recommended running it for a week.
I'm running a 15 lb load that I just got out of pre-polish tonight and started in polish. I ran it in the pre-polish for 12 days because I just didn't have the time before tonight to do everything to change, sort, clean and get it started in the polish. From the look of my rocks, I think that running it longer is better.
I've read the thread about alternative cushioning agents, but I just don't have the nerve to try it yet. Mine are running with the last of the plastic pellets that I had. The next load will require either a shopping trip, or the use of an alternative cushioning agent!
Good luck with your rocks! Barbara
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bwalters
has rocks in the head
Member since March 2004
Posts: 557
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Post by bwalters on May 6, 2004 0:26:43 GMT -5
Kim, I've never heard anything about using corn syrup in a tumbler. What's that about? Sure sounds like it would be messy. What does it do for the rocks? I've been concerned about how the plastic pellets stick to me and everything else. I can't begin to imagine how bad the sticky situation would be by adding corn syrup to the mix! Is it as bad as I am imagining it would be? But........if it does something really good for the rocks, I could live with that! Barbara
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James
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 876
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Post by James on May 6, 2004 3:36:34 GMT -5
Here are some simple guidelines to follow for a 15# barrel.
60/90 1 lb grit.
120/220 1 lb grit.
pre-polish 1/2 lb grit you don't need more.
polish 1/2 or even less. I recommend 1/2 lb.
Fill barrel up to the 5/8 line with plastic pellets as needed durning steps 2, 3 and 4.
It's that simple. Don't complicate it.
You can save the polish for as long as you want. Just keep it clean.
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Post by RockyHorror on May 6, 2004 8:22:40 GMT -5
No offense James, but that is only your opinion, and one that is not shared by many. Tumbling rocks involves a large amount of variables and to get the best results requires learning to tweak your process and recipe to match exactly what you have in the load. Harder rocks break down grit faster, but wear slower and thus form less of a slurry. This can be helped by increasing the amount of grit and decreasing the amount of water. Adding plastic pellets has very little effect in a 120/220 stage grind as the plastic is too soft and will wear way faster and easier than the rock. It's only real use is as a cushioning medium. Then again, rock like obsidian really needs to run with something like the plastic pellets. Once again, rules are only starting points and need to be adjusted from there. Any rock that is prone to impact damage presents additional problems. This is where considering things such as corn syrup can be of benefit. The rocks rotate up with the barrel and then drop back down to the bottom and crash into the rocks below. This problem is made worse if the barrel is run faster as the rock will make it higher up before it falls making it hit harder when it lands. That is why things such as corn syrup are used to slow the fall of the rocks by increasing the viscosity of the liquid, thus softening the impact. The newest rotary tumblers by Raytech have variable speed drives for that very reason (they're a little expensive though). Trying new things is a good thing. That's how new discoveries and advancements are made. I always reccomend that people keep a log book of the things they tried and all the circumstances of that trial. There are lots of different rocks out there with lots of different chemical makeups and they all react a little differently.
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bschultz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 234
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Post by bschultz on May 6, 2004 9:11:18 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your input. I got them rolling last night uning 1/2 lb of grit a little garden mulch for cushioning and a little squirt of dishwashing liquid. I plan to open up the barrel tonight and have a look at whats going on in there and make any changes that seem nessesary based on my observations and your advice and input. Thanks again, Bob
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Post by creativeminded on May 6, 2004 10:10:02 GMT -5
Prepare for soap suds if you put dishwashing liquid in it. Tami
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Post by rockyraccoon on May 6, 2004 11:24:25 GMT -5
barbara - i didn't find clean up to be any different with the corn syrup than without it. i didn't measure how much i added just opened the karo (light colored) bottle and poured some in after i'd already put the rocks, pellets and polish in then put my water in. i was wondering if it was going to be a big mistake but i didn't find it to be a problem. i was going to try the granular sugar but my husband had used it all for making tea so i used the karo.
kim
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Post by Noosh9057 on May 6, 2004 12:50:46 GMT -5
I think I will try using Corn Syrup. I would like to try some Experiments. I think thats how to Learn. If we dont experiment we will never learn.
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bwalters
has rocks in the head
Member since March 2004
Posts: 557
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Post by bwalters on May 6, 2004 16:28:54 GMT -5
If one were to use Corn Syrup in the polish and something other than plastic pellets for cushioning, would the polish still be reusable? Barbara
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bschultz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 234
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Post by bschultz on May 6, 2004 17:18:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't put it on my pancakes or anything
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Post by Noosh9057 on May 6, 2004 17:43:23 GMT -5
Hehehehe
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Post by rockyraccoon on May 6, 2004 21:59:11 GMT -5
i don't see why you couldn't save it with the corn syrup in it but i can't say for sure because i left mine outside for several days before i remembered i didn't bring it in with the polished rocks. i left it uncovered so i sure wouldn't want to venture what all blew in there - dirt, mowed grass, leaves, round-up. i haven't seen any ants hanging around it for the sugar. i'll take a hard look at it tomorrow and tell you what i think but i know i'm not reusing it after its been outside for weeks.
kim
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bwalters
has rocks in the head
Member since March 2004
Posts: 557
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Post by bwalters on May 6, 2004 23:30:34 GMT -5
From everything that has been posted lately, I'm not sure that I wouldn't try the used polish along with the dirt, mowed grass, leaves and round up. Might make for an interesting finish on your rocks! ;D
Barbara
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WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on May 6, 2004 23:33:19 GMT -5
I am going to get on the soap box for a little while, I was a little amused at the reply from rocky horror, Have you looked at the rocks that James has posted here? or read even half of the posts that he has put up? I see that you are a new member I am reminded that free advise is worth absolutly every dime you pay for it, if you choose not to listen then by all means don't-this is America. You can do what you want. this hobby has a lot of variables but one thing that I have learned is that James knows rocks. Please read the posts here and look at the pictures and enjoy the site, I know that I have learned a lot here
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James
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 876
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Post by James on May 7, 2004 2:37:46 GMT -5
No offense James, but that is only your opinion, and one that is not shared by many. Tumbling rocks involves a large amount of variables and to get the best results requires learning to tweak your process and recipe to match exactly what you have in the load. Harder rocks break down grit faster, but wear slower and thus form less of a slurry. This can be helped by increasing the amount of grit and decreasing the amount of water. Adding plastic pellets has very little effect in a 120/220 stage grind as the plastic is too soft and will wear way faster and easier than the rock. It's only real use is as a cushioning medium. Then again, rock like obsidian really needs to run with something like the plastic pellets. Once again, rules are only starting points and need to be adjusted from there. Any rock that is prone to impact damage presents additional problems. This is where considering things such as corn syrup can be of benefit. The rocks rotate up with the barrel and then drop back down to the bottom and crash into the rocks below. This problem is made worse if the barrel is run faster as the rock will make it higher up before it falls making it hit harder when it lands. That is why things such as corn syrup are used to slow the fall of the rocks by increasing the viscosity of the liquid, thus softening the impact. The newest rotary tumblers by Raytech have variable speed drives for that very reason (they're a little expensive though). Trying new things is a good thing. That's how new discoveries and advancements are made. I always reccomend that people keep a log book of the things they tried and all the circumstances of that trial. There are lots of different rocks out there with lots of different chemical makeups and they all react a little differently. That was one heck of a rebuttal Rocky. All the steps I've listed are common (general) guidelines. I'm not going to write a book about rock tumbling and all of its variables. As I've mentioned before, I routinely try new things. Thats how I landed at that recipe. I prefer to use plastic pellets instead of sticky sugars. They're clean and easy to reuse. With all due respect, I've been using the same pellets for 120/220 for over 6 months now! They are almost as good as new. Little or now breakdown. I agree with most of your comments though.
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Post by RockyHorror on May 7, 2004 6:56:35 GMT -5
I am going to get on the soap box for a little while, I was a little amused at the reply from rocky horror, Have you looked at the rocks that James has posted here? or read even half of the posts that he has put up? I see that you are a new member I am reminded that free advise is worth absolutly every dime you pay for it, if you choose not to listen then by all means don't-this is America. You can do what you want. this hobby has a lot of variables but one thing that I have learned is that James knows rocks. Please read the posts here and look at the pictures and enjoy the site, I know that I have learned a lot here Problem here Warren, is that you seem to think that only certain OPINIONS can be posted here. The freedom for you to post your opinion, is no more valuable than the freedom for me to post mine. You seem to be very impressed with James, and that is fine. Never said that James is not very good with his rocks. But your assumption that he is beyond question is somewhat ridiculous! Posting pictures of shiny rocks doesn't make you better than everybody else, it just means that you posted better pictures than anyone else that has posted pictures. This board shouldn't be about "hero worship" or "who's better than someone else", and to imply that ANYTHING is beyond question is being very shallow indeed. By the way, I find your assumption that nobody can know anything about rocks unless they have been a member of this board amusing!
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Post by rockyraccoon on May 7, 2004 12:14:05 GMT -5
well there is that saying "a picture says a 1000 words".
you do seem a bit defensive where james is concerned. 1/3 of your posts are directed at him.
share some of your pics with us. we love pics!
kim
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WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on May 7, 2004 16:48:46 GMT -5
The rocks have been here longer than us and will most certianly be here long after we are gone. I believe that a person could study rocks on this planet for an entire lifetime and still not know everything about them. I am a novice with rocks and need to have all the help that i can get and my friend James has helped me on several ocations. Perhaps we will get to know each other a little better and be able to help each other. That is the purpose of this board I think
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