Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 22:05:30 GMT -5
This thread is in the same light as Tela's "A question about jade" thread. In her thread I explained my love for jade and smote fire agate. Rather than hijack her thread I started this one. I also got a PM from a nice friend, so now we can discuss it publicly. All I have seen is a few hundred pounds at Q last winter and it was all brown with tiny bits of green flash. Gem opal kicks ass. Fire agate, for me? Meh. What's so cool about fire agate? kk Kurt yours and every opinion is valued.
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Post by kk on May 17, 2014 22:57:46 GMT -5
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
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Post by 1nickthegreek on May 17, 2014 23:05:24 GMT -5
LMAO, Kurt Kainzer is a god of the fire agates though as far as I am concerned....what he has done in 4 days blows away what I am almost 4 months into carving, it could be that I am just so scared of going through the layers and thereby ruining the agate as I did so many times back before I started studying the art of carving them, or more than likely it is both that, along with the fact that KK has loads more practice time along with far superior technique and tools. Just my look at things and I am a former OPAL ADDICT on top of that all. LOL
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junglejim
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2014
Posts: 344
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Post by junglejim on May 17, 2014 23:25:02 GMT -5
kk, those are incredible pieces. Second from the bottom is my favorite.
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Post by kk on May 18, 2014 0:00:11 GMT -5
LMAO, Kurt Kainzer is a god of the fire agates though as far as I am concerned....what he has done in 4 days blows away what I am almost 4 months into carving, it could be that I am just so scared of going through the layers and thereby ruining the agate as I did so many times back before I started studying the art of carving them, or more than likely it is both that, along with the fact that KK has loads more practice time along with far superior technique and tools. Just my look at things and I am a former OPAL ADDICT on top of that all. LOL It takes a sort of obsession to get it done. When it comes to tools, I think we are working with pretty much the same (Fordome equivalent, Chinese burrs and bucket for water dipping ) Not everything goes that fast. The one below: I'm at it since August last year and no end in sight. This one I posted about a month ago. Just to get the colored area, it took also since August last year. The additional; carving, just a few weeks (dedicated) but the colour on and off for a good 7 months. One other point in favor of Fire Agate is its durability. No worries, unlike with opal or ammolite.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on May 18, 2014 0:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by Rockoonz on May 18, 2014 0:49:51 GMT -5
To me the fire agate is the beautiful, wiley old rainbow trout just down below the surface daring me to bring him to the surface. The Fire Opal is the dead one floating on top.
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 383
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Post by 1nickthegreek on May 18, 2014 3:46:25 GMT -5
To me the fire agate is the beautiful, wiley old rainbow trout just down below the surface daring me to bring him to the surface. The Fire Opal is the dead Chub floating on top. Sorry, just hadda change that a lil bit LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on May 18, 2014 7:49:02 GMT -5
I like fire opal well enough but some of it can be unstable, dehydrate, fracture etc and is pretty delicate in general. I'm a big fan of fire agate as it is tough, durable, has outrageous patterns and can rival even the best opal for color. Perhaps a bit more problematic to work due to the weird shapes and it needs the sun to really have the colors pop but I'd give the edge to a grade A fire agate over an opal any day.
Rick, that last stone with the purple is incredible!...Mel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 9:19:25 GMT -5
MEH Both are too much trouble. My vote is in the other thread. Jim
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on May 18, 2014 9:24:48 GMT -5
Love fire agate too......I have a few pounds of it,but haven't a clue on how to start to work it without ruining it.. How do you cut it off the rough?
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Post by Rockhobbit on May 18, 2014 10:05:09 GMT -5
I am with you Fossil! I have a bunch of it but don't have the courage to work it yet! LOL Sheri
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Post by rockjunquie on May 18, 2014 10:41:49 GMT -5
To paraphrase Longfellow: And when it is good, it is very, very good, But when it is bad it is horrid.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on May 18, 2014 12:49:22 GMT -5
Tela, I think your Longfellow paraphrase can apply to both jade and fire agate. And, for that matter, any stone that's used as a gem. Michael and Sheri, one of the most difficult parts of cutting fire agate is finding high quality rough. The vast majority is medium to low quality. The problem is you almost never know what you have until you cut it, and that requires a lot of labor. It's also pretty tough on tools. Probably the best option for beginners is to start with windowed pieces to get the "feel" of how nature made the stuff. After my own steep learning curve I wrote a "how-to" article for a friend's on-line "magazine," The Eclectic Lapidary. Anyone interested can find it on my website: www.artcutgems.com It deals with using standard lapidary equipment. The part about using carving skills to achieve the best results remains to be written. Kurt is the Authority in that area but if I ever find the time I'll add my thoughts. In my opinion fire agate will remain a specialty stone for two reasons: very few consumers are willing to pay the high labor cost involved for quality stones; and virtually every fire agate cabochon requires a custom-made setting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 13:56:58 GMT -5
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Post by Rockoonz on May 18, 2014 14:24:56 GMT -5
Yesterday I went to an auto related swap meet as a vendor. I took a little container with some of my recent work in to show freinds what I am doing instead of crawling under old cars nowadays. A very nice example of Spencer opal pinfire in a triplet seemed to get the biggest oohs and aahs from the ladies, a B grade fire agate basic freeform cabochon that showed some pretty good purples and greens got the mens attention. A dealer freind once referred to fire agate as "man opal". I tend to agree.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on May 18, 2014 15:03:07 GMT -5
A dealer freind once referred to fire agate as "man opal". I tend to agree. That's the case in my experience. It's durable enough for men's jewelry, unlike precious opal, and has largely been marketed that way. But the stone has a strong female following too, especially for small high-color stones in pendants.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on May 18, 2014 15:07:40 GMT -5
2.5 grams for $2500?? Even the goldsmithing is student grade. Not saying I could do better. Just saying it aint pro quality work and dude wants $2500! I agree. Of course sellers can ask any price they wish but that doesn't necessarily establish actual value or selling price.
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Post by kk on May 18, 2014 17:43:01 GMT -5
The part about using carving skills to achieve the best results remains to be written. Kurt is the Authority in that area but if I ever find the time I'll add my thoughts. In my opinion fire agate will remain a specialty stone for two reasons: very few consumers are willing to pay the high labor cost involved for quality stones; and virtually every fire agate cabochon requires a custom-made setting. Nahhh, no authority here. Just passion for the subject. I personally don't think you need carving-skills to work FA, but it helps. What I started last year is just adding another step to FA to make medium quality (something that is abundant and 95% of all material seems to fall into that category), more attractive. Thats exactly why I'm in regular fights with a handful of people who seem to dominate the market ever since I have come to town. Christopher and two or three others seem to be the exception to the rule as they promote the stone for its beauty and variety. Yet the vast majority of sellers wants to talk nothing but price, and control the price by telling you what "high" quality is. And belief me, I have tried many times to have them fix or tie the term "High quality" to certain material. To no avail, because then it would be open to criticism, and individual taste (something no seller can defend)and they could not float the price for something purely at will. That results in many people getting turned off from this material as the price alone. I don't follow fashion or trends in general. If a material gets to popular (like OJ right now), I remain on the sideline (I really love the look of OJ, but will not get it because I don't want to wear (remember, I cut only for myself) something that everyone else does). With Fire Agate, its pretty much the same, but the variety of colours and structures within will allow a much greater market participation and still remain absolutely unique. Plus, I got now the habit of adding some form of actual carving. As for the highest priced colours right now: Blue, purple and red are demanding the highest prices. Personally : Red is something I pursue, blue and purple will be more by chance as they are extremely hard to achieve and if they do appear, in 99% of pieces I have seen, its in only very small areas that easily get completely lost in bigger stones. Plus, blue/purple and a lot of other intensive colors tend to make the overall appearance of a stone pretty dark. So I would rather wear something that is considered medium quality, but becomes a focal point every-time I or someone else looks a it in passing.Hence my earlier notion that I would rather wear a 40$ stone than something measured in thousands.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 18:26:17 GMT -5
As a life long salesman, I have never been successful selling "steak" but have done very sell selling the "sizzle". (It's a metaphor, I have never sold meat) For me, fire agate entirely lacks sizzle. =========================================== Privately, I was asked what my "favorite" stone was and why. In that reply I said "I dont really have a favorite stone. If I had to throw them all away but one, I'd keep some jade and make it into a knife." I hope I have not offended that friend as that person really likes fire agate. I have reconsidered my answer to that question. So I'll put it here. I have a real passion for a man-made stone. Laser Alexandrite (chrysoberyl).
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