swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 4, 2014 23:33:28 GMT -5
Hello - Have a ton of questions and came across this forum. So I'm new to tumbling and bought a 12lbs capacity Thumler Model B Rotary tumbler. Also bought 80, 220, 400 grit, and aluminum oxide pre-polish and polish. Here is how I ran my first batch of rocks (11lbs of rock): 80 grit - 7 days - 8 tbs grit (Too little grit? Seemed like it had good slurry) barrel 4/5ths full 220 grit - 7 days - 8 tbs grit - added plastic pellets 400 grit - 7 days - 8 tbs grit - added plastic pellets Pre-Polish - 7 days - 8 tbs - added plastic pellets (too much pre-polish? Seemed like slurry was harder to wash out) Polish - 10 days - 8 tbs - added plastic pellets (Again, possibly too much polish) Burnish - 2 days - 1/4th bar of Dial soap shaved - added plastic pellets Between each step the rocks were removed, rinsed with a garden hose, placed in a bucket with borax to soak/clean for half a day, rinsed again and then on to the next step. I have kept my plastic pellets separate for each stage as to not cross-contaminate. I only have one barrel that I used for all steps. I have washed it with borax between steps. When you clean the rocks and pellets between steps, do you clean them in the tumbler, meaning rotating? Seems like the rocks were shinier before the burnishing stage. When I opened up the tumbler after the 2 days of burnishing there was sud action going on but it was more dark grey than I would have thought. Almost looked like I had added polish, but I had not. I guess I can think of several things that went wrong possibly. I do not know my rocks very well. While on vacation my kids collected a half 5 gallon bucket of beach rocks from Lake Superior. We grabbed some from the bucket to tumble. I have been doing some reading and you should possibly sort rocks by hardness? How do you test hardness? Also, some rocks had some holes or cracks in them. I read about using superglue to prevent grit contamination. What do these stones look like afterward? If you have a rock with some holes in that you like would you just keep it in the rough grit to wear away until the holes are gone? Some rocks seemed to have a fine finish on them while some just appear to be wearing away. This is possibly why my burnish slurry was so dark. I took pics between each step but am uploading my before pics, after polish pics and after burnishing pics. Sorry for all the rookie questions. I'm just looking to make some cool rocks that my children can enjoy. It's a great hobby we can do together and it teaches them patience!! BeforeAfter PolishAfter BurnishingAny help with identifying what kind of rocks I have would be appreciated. Also noticed it seems there are some rocks that have two types of rocks mixed. One part of the rock shined up nice while the other part of the rock did not. Is it that some rocks aren't meant to be polished? Thanks!!
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 4, 2014 23:42:11 GMT -5
One more question I just thought of. As you work your way through the grits, the rocks take up less space in the tumbler and I added the plastic beads and kept the tumbler approximately 3/4ths full. When adding water, do you not worry about the beads? Just put your rocks in, put in water just below the tops of the rocks, then fill up to 3/4 with beads?
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Jun 5, 2014 0:20:41 GMT -5
By our method, we would use 12tbs polish, and burnish with dry laundry soap mixed to about pancake batter thickness, and run it for 5-7 days. The feeling with the soap is that it is a little grittier than bar soap. Gives us good result. Our preference is to make up volume with rocks rather than pellets, pea gravel works well in the absence of better material. Some rocks aren't meant to be tumbled, the dull, brick looking red one as example, once a brick, always a brick. Looks like several of the "speckled" rocks are granite, it often doesn't polish well. Play with using less water, generally to the bottom of the top layer is too much. Measure how much you put in for reference. Keep a log of what you do, and keep on trying. We've all been there. We really liked the photo presentation. Larry
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cathiasplace
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2014
Posts: 17
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Post by cathiasplace on Jun 5, 2014 0:44:20 GMT -5
Did you buy river rocks off of eBay? Those look a lot like the rocks I have been tumbling.
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 5, 2014 9:36:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Larry!! Is there a guide somewhere on which rocks polish and which don't and an identification guide on beach rocks? I'll have to sort through these and put these through the polishing stages again. Definitely will use less water, more grit and polish and see how that works out.
Cathiasplace - My two girls picked rocks off a beach on Lake Superior when we vacationed up there last summer.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 5, 2014 10:30:37 GMT -5
Welcome Swiper. I'll give you my take on a few of those questions. Testing hardness is fairly easy. Use a good pocket knife or steel file, try to scratch the rock using a lot of pressure. If it does not scratch the rock, it will likely take a shine. A magnifying glass is helpful here, the steel tool can leave a silvery streak in a hard rock that may look like a scratch, the magnifier can help you tell if it's a streak or scratch. When I clean rocks between stages it is done in the barrel. Rocks, media, soap/borax and water all go in the barrel and I let it roll anywhere from a couple hours to overnight. I will sometimes do multiple washes until the water pours out clean. Super glue has never worked for me to fill pits. It softens up in the water and gets loose or falls out. If you want to get rid of pits more time is needed in the rough grind. Many of my rocks run 3 weeks to 3 months in rough grind with weekly cleanouts or recharges. As for the dark burnish water I can speculate ... Could of been harder parts of rocks grinding off softer parts, hence the parts that shined and those that didn't. HDPE plastic pellets can react with hard water and will make the water a grey color. Could of been something in the soap reacting with the rocks. For soap I use Ivory bar soap shavings, it is supposed to be 99 % pure, no additives. Here is a thread that discusses water levels, it may help, or be of interest. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/post/735759/thread In my 12# I would use two cups of water, this is way below the bottom of the top layer guideline, perhaps half way up or so. I too enjoyed your photo stream.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Jun 5, 2014 11:07:59 GMT -5
We have worked up a method over several years that goes pretty much a pound of grit per gallon of tumbler capacity, and 3/4 that amount of polish. A measuring cup [see dollar store, not kitchen] of grit weighs a pound. A 12lb. barrel is ~a gallon, I suggest that as a start point. Fiddling w/method and keeping a good complete log will help you learn what works and what doesn't. We run our tumblers out in a shed away from the house and I keep a pen and pad in an old shirt pocket tacked on a shelf support. As far as what to pick up, look for rocks that are either translucent [quartz, or the more generally used term, agate] but not grainy as some you showed were. The other material to pick is jasper, same material but with different minerals in it that makes it opaque and in a variety of colors. The quartz based materials are probably the best to learn with. Look for materials that appear hard and smooth on any broken surfaces. Being that we are a couple thousand miles apart, hard for me to suggest what to pick, lots of people on the forum are familiar w/your area. We have been tumbling for about 18 yrs., and have come up with a procedure that gets us compliments on quality, but we also are always looking for improvement. There's a great wealth of knowledge here on the forum, try to learn from everyone and work up what gives you good result. We normally run our rough cycle 10-14 days, like your 4/5 full, to us the 1/2-3/4 full allows too much banging. Larry
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 5, 2014 13:07:27 GMT -5
Tkvancil - thanks for the thread for water levels. I'll definitely try using less water. I tested the hardness of some of the rocks I tumbled and there are several that are soft. I suspect these were breaking up and acting as grit.
Quartz - I appreciate the advice. I will have to watch what the girls throw in the bucket this summer as we plan on taking another vacation up by Lake Superior. You should see the size of some of the rocks they brought back. Some the size of your fist. I've been reading the forums and there is some awesome stuff out there. Lots of reading to do but I'll get there.
With some of the rocks that have holes or large breaks would it be quicker to grind these down to the point the holes are gone? Pre-shaping if you will. Looks like some people in this forum do that. Saves time and grit? Also been seeing the term "cab" a lot.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Jun 5, 2014 23:29:15 GMT -5
Some people do pre-grind before tumbling, up to the individual. Best way to see if it works for you is try it, we don't. The term "cab" is short for cabochon, a form of grinding and polishing of a stone, used to be a dimensionally pretty cut and dried set of domed ovals, now freeforms are done and enjoyed by many; us included. If you have a museum nearby that has a mineral display, or a rock club you can visit, either would be helpful to the learning curve. Keep on keepin' on, and have fun. Larry
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Post by pghram on Jun 6, 2014 10:55:55 GMT -5
First, that's a nice first batch. River rock can be challenging since it's ofter mixed hardnesses. I also use 1 TBS/ lb, so 12 TBS for a 12 lb barrel.
Rich
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 6, 2014 13:52:26 GMT -5
Here are a couple of books that I have that you might like to help with identification. Untitled The small book has pictures on one page and descriptions on the next. Every page looks pretty much the same. Untitled The larger book is mostly text with a small section of color photos of the most common rocks. It's less formal and is easy to read. One large section has descriptions of specific locations to find rocks, and another large part of the book describes some of the most common rocks you'll find on the beaches. There's also a short section on searching mine dumps. Untitled I like both of these books a lot. Here's a website that you'll find useful too. You definitely have some rocks in your batch that are softer stones. You also have a lot of granite. Granite looks great on the beach, but I don't really pick it up anymore. It's made of minerals that are different hardnesses and some wear away faster than others. This is called undercutting. It always bugs me that they're not perfect in the end. They do get shiny though, so other people don't mind this. Keep your eyes open for unakite. It's a green and red/orange rock. I just look for green and pick up anything with green in it. If it's speckled like granite (it is actually granite), I throw it back. If it's not speckled, but more streaky, it's a keeper. Unakite is quite common and polishes really nicely. If in doubt, take a rock home and give it a try in your tumbler. It won't take long before you know what will tumble well and what won't. I leave my rocks in the rough stage until they're completely free of holes. With beach stones like you have, it doesn't usually take very long, but longer than a week. Each week, I take out the rocks that are done and add more rough rocks. I do this until I have enough rocks for the next stage. Most beach rocks will be done in 2-3 weeks, but some will take longer and some will be done after only a week. I do all of my other stages in a vibratory tumbler, so I can't comment on those stages. However, I think that you should do your washes in the barrels. I do this in my vibe. Another possible reason that you're getting gray water in the burnish stage is that the rocks weren't completely clean before burnishing. They probably weren't completely clean after any of your stages. I've just recently started spending much more time on the between stage cleanings. I rinse the rocks really well in a colander, then return them to the barrel with either Dreft soap or Borax and run them for a half hour or more. Then I rinse them again and get gray water. I do this at least one more time and usually get lighter gray water again. Any of that grit that is carried to the next stage can potentially do harm.
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 6, 2014 15:08:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. Definitely worth reading those books. I do recognize some of the rocks I picked up in the pages you have open. I think this next batch will be a lot better. Nothing like learning from your first tumbling run.
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