moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Jun 14, 2014 5:45:01 GMT -5
After viewing all the gorgeous rocks on this forum I've become a total shine snob. I finished my first batch of polished rocks, and they did come out shiny, but I know they can be better, so I'm going to put most of them through again, but I'm not sure at what stage to put them. Some clearly need to be reshaped in 60/90 in my rotary, but would that be appropriate for something that is already round, but has pits and chips like this quartz? Would any of you just put this through a 120/220 vibe course, or would only the 60/90 get these smooth? I know quartz is problematic anyway, I'm getting chipping no matter what course they're in.
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Jun 14, 2014 5:54:27 GMT -5
That's a nice shine on there... but Quartz is prone to chipping. I do not use a vibe but I believe the only way to tumble out irregularities like that is a coarse rotary tumble. You can cheat a little if you have a grinder and work pits out more quickly. Use some cushioning like plastic pellets in the rotary for material that chips like quartz
charlie
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 14, 2014 8:45:48 GMT -5
I agree with Charlie. That needs a lot more time in 60/90 in your rotary tumbler. I go for months in my rotary for some stones.
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Jun 14, 2014 10:01:01 GMT -5
Thanks....back it goes. Yeah, this has probably been 4 weeks in 60/90 before the rest of the grit courses, quartz is sure interesting.
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Post by connrock on Jun 14, 2014 10:07:39 GMT -5
The quartz in the photo was taken out of the rough course way too soon and needs to be roughed quite a few more times. One problem that arises with the rough stage is that all of the rocks aren't ready for the next stage at the same time and these rocks are usually the bigger,more(deeper)flawed rocks so if you want to end up with 4 lbs of finished rocks you have to start out with at least 6-8 lbs of rough.As you "cull" the rocks ready for the 2nd stage,you add more rough rocks to the ones that are not ready for the 2nd stage and keep roughing until you only have a few "bad" ones. These "bad" ones can later be put in with other types of rocks of the same hardness and the cycle goes on and on. You can put these "bad" unfinished rocks in a container and mark it according to hardness for future use. connrock
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 14, 2014 11:31:28 GMT -5
Yeah, back to 60/90. A tip I got from Jamesp another board member. When roughing quartz fill the barrel and keep filled to about 80%. I've tried this and it works to keep the quartz from getting too banged up and frosting.
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Jun 14, 2014 12:28:35 GMT -5
Does anyone have any concerns about putting "new", sharper rocks in with the already-worn ones? I've been trying to put worn with worn and rougher with rough, but now I'm wondering if it really makes much difference at the 60/90 stage.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 14, 2014 12:39:15 GMT -5
I do that all the time in the 60/90 stage. As Connrock pointed out, you just keep adding fresh rocks to the first stage as you remove rocks that are ready for the second stage. The fresh rock is usually very rough, while the rocks that have already been in 60/90 for weeks or months may be close to being finished.
After the first stage you'll want to keep only rocks from the same stage together. Since rocks don't wear down nearly as much after the first stage, I never add anything in the following stages. If I was to add something, I'd add ceramic, but only after making sure that it was very, very clean. I'm really careful about introducing contaminants to my tumbler after the 60/90 stage.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 14, 2014 16:07:03 GMT -5
I add fresh rock to 60/90 all the time. Never had any thing bad happen.
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Post by pghram on Jun 16, 2014 14:51:19 GMT -5
By adding fresh rock to my course grinds in my QT66 my course grind never ends. I pull stones ready for 120/220 & complete all the rest of the steps in a 33 B.
Rich
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Jun 17, 2014 6:26:10 GMT -5
moogie, you can get a cheap tile saw and grind some of those divots and fractures away. If it is a big fracture and the stone would best be split by the fracture you can saw on the fracture and pop it w/a chisel to make two. Otherwise ditto more coarse grind.And time.
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Post by connrock on Jun 17, 2014 8:09:59 GMT -5
After reading James post I started thinking again,,,,some days it's hard to get the memory banks to run at full power now! LOL Breaking and trimming the rough rocks the right way can also help to cut down on the time the rocks spend in the rough stage. We all would like to have some fairly big tumbled rocks but you first have to consider that these are rocks and not gemstones so what we're dealing with will have pits,cracks and fractures. When you examine your rough take a good look at each piece of rock and think to yourself,,,How long will it take to rough out this "cavity/flaw"?If it's deep it could take months of roughing and that big rock you wanted to polish will end up pretty small in the end because the entire outer surface of that rock HAS to be ground down to get rid of the flaws. Not much of a choice but to break that rock where the flaw is!
Another thing is to "chip" of the sharp edges and pointed parts of the rough rocks using a rock hammer with a "chisel" end on it,,,,,like a masons hammer.This may seem time consuming and a bother but in the end it does save quite a bit of time in the rough stage.
You will learn the characteristics of different types of rocks as you chip away and find that some break totally opposite to the way you thought they would.This helps you to "read" different types of rocks and know where to chip and where not to,,,where to align the chisel and where not to. Obsidian is a monster to break into nice looking rough because it "flakes" rather then breaking cleanly.Some jasper reacts the same way.
Hmmmm,,,why do I care about all or any of this?All I want to do is tumble rocks!!! If rock tumbling stirs your interest in rocks 1/2 as it did mine,,,you'll soon be cutting cabs,etc,etc,etc and the knowledge you learned about different types of rocks will save you time and money down the road! A good example of this is working with tigers eye.When you tumble it you'll see it chatoyancy(shiller)somewhere around the outer surface of the rocks.However when you are cutting rough tigers eye you HAVE to orientate it correctly when you cut it or you won't see that "shiller" at all! connrock
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Jun 17, 2014 11:31:51 GMT -5
Excellent advice! Sometimes I get so caught up in how nice the rock well look all shined up that I forget they can be chiseled to get the "good" stuff going. Good thing to keep in mind.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Jun 17, 2014 12:25:25 GMT -5
This guy has a funny voice. I made this youtube of breaking a piece of coral. It is similar to obsidian, glassy. just turn the volume off
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Post by connrock on Jun 20, 2014 7:26:57 GMT -5
That's a great video James but when I turned the volume off I couldn't hear anything! LOL Do you have another one with sub titles? LOL connrock
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Jun 20, 2014 19:48:47 GMT -5
That's a great video James but when I turned the volume off I couldn't hear anything! LOL Do you have another one with sub titles? LOL connrock Laughing, there is a software converter for converting good English to Georgia English. It is called the Dialcticizer. Simply copy 'good English' into the converter block and click 'redneck'. However, it does not convert the other way. And I suppose the reason for that is good English is no fun. Let me 'dialecticize' your statement above conrock.. Thet's a great video James but when ah turned th' voloom off ah c'dn't hear ennythin'! Fry mah hide! LOL Do yo' haf t'other one wif sub titles? LOL Link: www.rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 382
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Post by 1nickthegreek on Jun 21, 2014 4:49:07 GMT -5
That coral looks like it spalls sort of like obsidian, have you ever tried popping it with a piece of sandstone rather than a micro ball peen hammer? Were you wearing safety glasses, or were they with your gloves?
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 382
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Post by 1nickthegreek on Jun 21, 2014 4:49:59 GMT -5
Modern coral knapping by jamesp lol
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Jun 21, 2014 7:51:46 GMT -5
That coral looks like it spalls sort of like obsidian, have you ever tried popping it with a piece of sandstone rather than a micro ball peen hammer? Were you wearing safety glasses, or were they with your gloves? it does spall like obsidian Nick. At least some of it. Some is cherty. Heat treating the cherty stuff converts it to a glassy obsidian like texture in many cases. The glassy stuff does not absorb color producing salts like the grainy stuff though. The grainy stuff takes a fine polish whether it is heated or not, but knaps terribly unless it is heat treated.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Jun 21, 2014 8:02:28 GMT -5
The hammer is annealed. Hard iron sends fractures. annealed steel, brass and copper hammers are best for not fracturing. Sandstone sounds like another desirable soft material. the small long handled hammer gives good control on angle and location of strike. The cherty stuff is much more difficult to break down and avoid fractures. Did you mention safety glasses Nick ?
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