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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 15, 2014 9:54:15 GMT -5
Thanks Scott. For the last week I've been experimenting with different techniques to take pictures of my tumbling contest rocks. It's really difficult to show the shine of a rock without showing the reflection of the whole room. However, some reflection is good for showing shine. I like when the rectangular fluorescent lights in my basement reflect on a rock because they give that shiny look.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 15, 2014 10:51:53 GMT -5
Scott, I know from reading on the subject, the serious UV photographer has to have his camera modified. It has to be sent in to a company which specializes in the modifications. They disassemble the camera, remove an internal lens or filter, and replace it with a fused silica lens or filter. This costs several hundred dollars, and most hobbiests don't want to sink that much into a single camera. I had good luck with my first UV pic using nothing more than an unmodified Kodak. My only problem was camera shake. Since I was just experimenting, I didn't use a tripod. I only wanted to see how good the colors came out. I'll post the pic in a minute, and except for blurring from camera shake you be the judge of the colors. I really do want to learn to take quality UV pics without investing hundreds of dollars in a modified camera. The mineral before & after. Hand held with no light tent.(My table top UV light is too big to fit in my light tent).  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 15, 2014 11:08:42 GMT -5
Took a bunch of macros yesterday and put the camera of fixed f/22 in bright sun so that the slowest shutter speed was 1/200 for black rock, highest for white rock was 1/400.
so I could hand hold them and shoot them fast from 6 inches away(not a true 1:1 macro). Then cropped them. Lazy way but fast. Not but 2 out of about 200 blurred.
I am not sure, but I think that is called aperture priority(aperture fixed)-or is that shutter priority ? Priority = fixed or variable, I dunno.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 15, 2014 12:59:56 GMT -5
[quote author="@shotgunner" Interestingly enough, I have never touched white balance. Perhaps I should learn it, because I am not happy with my color saturation. [/quote][/p]
If your particular camera has a "custom" WB setting I'd recommend using it. Some people use a sheet of white paper to calibrate the setting; I prefer an 18% gray card, available inexpensively from camera stores or on-line.
I shoot most of my cabochon images like the one below with natural light from a north-facing window. (The reflections might bother some folks but not me -- mileage varies. I think they indicate the quality of polish.) In the course of shooting I'll usually re-set WB several times to reflect changes in cloudiness, time of day etc. It takes a little longer but my camera has a setting for WB bracketing. It records 3 images of each exposure, one to the red, another to the blue and a third in what the camera "thinks" is WB corrected. Even with custom WB I often disagree with the camera's decision.
Images shot in RAW offer other WB options. I have no experience with it so can't offer any advice.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 15, 2014 13:20:16 GMT -5
I have good luck shooting the subject and uploading it to see if it compares favorably. my D70 Nikon shoots cold(bluish).
Tried +3 +2 +1 adjustments and still can't get rid of it. It is a cold shooter in reviews.
Reflections don't bother me either Rick. Helps to see the surface character. Great photo.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 15, 2014 13:31:38 GMT -5
I agree about the white balance. Scott mentioned using an SLR, but I have a midrange camera and it seems to work well enough. I can not get as much depth of field with it, though.
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Post by Pat on Jun 15, 2014 13:43:13 GMT -5
Scott, thanks for this thread. I also do not use the cable, but set the timer to 2 seconds. Yes, macro and tripod are essential. My setup keeps changing, but it always has lighting --- daylight bulbs and no other light on in the room, tripod, camera set on macro and 2 second timer, dollar store makeup brush to remove fuzzies, and reflector cards for metal pieces especially. Just prior to the photo, I also use the Sunshine polishing cloth to clean the item. No slr. Agree with the white balance. Always.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 19:07:50 GMT -5
Took a bunch of macros yesterday and put the camera of fixed f/22 in bright sun so that the slowest shutter speed was 1/200 for black rock, highest for white rock was 1/400. so I could hand hold them and shoot them fast from 6 inches away(not a true 1:1 macro). Then cropped them. Lazy way but fast. Not but 2 out of about 200 blurred. I am not sure, but I think that is called aperture priority(aperture fixed)-or is that shutter priority ? Priority = fixed or variable, I dunno. Yes, AV is aperture priority. That allows you to set the aperture (f-stop) and the camera does the rest. Even at 1/200 second tripod images will be sharper that hand held. Give it a try. I'll mess with white balance. Will do homework following gemfeller's lead and continue. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 15, 2014 20:59:28 GMT -5
@shotgunner Here is a link to something like what you want. You can get cheaper or more fancy. www.ebay.com/itm/MENNON-Set-of-2-TWO-18-Digital-Kard-Premium-White-Balance-Gray-Card-4x6-6x8-/251459802705For old fashioned cameras, they used a different gray value. You want the one for digital. Just place it in front of your object after you have the lighting you want. Then, depending on your camera settings, you take a picture of the card. Do this every time your background/lighting changes. The only hard part is figuring your own camera settings. Most will have a way to save your settings. On mine, when I shoot in the tent, I just pick my saved settings and go. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 22:26:07 GMT -5
Thanks Tela. I'll sort this out over the next week. I have more cut stones coming from Ray!! woohoo!! Ray is da man!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 16, 2014 5:15:12 GMT -5
You are right Scott. However I do have the camera mounted in that rigid rig I made. It must have been made for a very heavy camera. I don't think it shakes. I hand hold the stone w/my hand resting on a towel for steadiness. The main reason I do that is to hold the rock at the best angle so the sun hits from the side to avoid glare. If it is cloudy I get total glare. Now that the sun is almost overhead, I have the camera about 30 degrees off vertical. In the winter I just shoot straight down w/vertical since the sun lays low in the sky. Not perfect, but fast. Sun is to left, love it's strong light  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 16, 2014 5:40:55 GMT -5
Here is some examples of classic 'poor' white balance. The incandescent bulb is a desk lamp. It supplies so much red/orange light my older digital can not adjust these colors out w/the white balance. The sun is well within it's range and white balance is simply set to 'sun' setting. Camera and subject color agree. By putting stones of a wide range of colors to the screen next to their photos comparisons can be made over the whole color scale. Reds and oranges can be very color deceptive. Digital cameras have variations, some replicate color over the whole spectrum. Many do not. I think it has something to do w/their cost, ha. Incandescent(deceptive)  sun(true)  Incandescent(deceptive)  sun(true)  Incandescent(deceptive)  sun(true)  |
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 16, 2014 8:24:59 GMT -5
I think I figured something out that works for my $100 point and shoot camera. I'm using a Canon PowerShot SD1100 IS. Whenever I switch it to manual settings, I get very grainy pictures. I just discovered the ISO setting which controls the camera's sensitivity to light. By turning that way down to 80 (the lowest setting), I'm getting very sharp, non grainy pictures.
James, you're trying to reduce glare on your pictures, but I think glare is key to showing shine. Glare completely blocks out details in the rock, but shows how shiny it is. So if your goal is to show what the rock looks like, reduce glare. If you want to show shine, show either a big rectangular light (like a 2x4 fluorescent light in a drop ceiling panel) or sky in the glare.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 16, 2014 8:45:59 GMT -5
I think I figured something out that works for my $100 point and shoot camera. I'm using a Canon PowerShot SD1100 IS. Whenever I switch it to manual settings, I get very grainy pictures. I just discovered the ISO setting which controls the camera's sensitivity to light. By turning that way down to 80 (the lowest setting), I'm getting very sharp, non grainy pictures. James, you're trying to reduce glare on your pictures, but I think glare is key to showing shine. Glare completely blocks out details in the rock, but shows how shiny it is. So if your goal is to show what the rock looks like, reduce glare. If you want to show shine, show either a big rectangular light (like a 2x4 fluorescent light in a drop ceiling panel) or sky in the glare. High ISO definitely increases grain. ISO 1600 or 3200 is great for fast action shots. Low light too. Terrible distortion though. I set on lowest too at ISO 80, reduces grain and noise distortion, picks up colors. Best setting for still shots of rocks. ISO settings are often chosen by AUTO mode. That is a big problem with AUTO mode. Amongst other settings... And many people do not set the ISO to lowest setting. It will set rock photos on fire. If I ever buy a Lotto I will do that glare trick. When I saw the shine on Chuck's glass I was very jealous. Still am. And Rob's avatar does the same thing to me. |
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 16, 2014 8:57:07 GMT -5
James don't get creepy with comments about what my picture does to you!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jun 16, 2014 10:19:01 GMT -5
James don't get creepy with comments about what my picture does to you! Take a minute to study that particular avatar for a moment Rob. With glasses.... I will say that the shine is beautiful. |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 16, 2014 13:24:19 GMT -5
Just a few thoughts here:
I'm not a trained photographer. Anything I know comes as a result of trial-and-error and persistence. But before we head off in all directions at once in this discussion I'll make a few observations and a suggestion. My experience suggests that:
1. Photographing cabochons presents specialized problems.
2. Ditto faceted gems.
3. Ditto stone-set jewelry.
I doubt there's a single set of instructions or techniques that will give satisfactory results in all cases. That's made especially true since there are so many different kinds of cameras, and imaging technology is moving at such breathtaking speed.
Suggestion: Maybe we should have some sort of agreement on what a "good" image of Shiny Tinies really entails. I see all sorts of gem images in this and other forums and they get varying reactions. I'd like to hear what qualities others think a "good" image should have.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 16, 2014 13:30:59 GMT -5
Gettin better. Camera on tripod this time. 2 second delay. I couldn't block all of the daylight from the room. I'll try again tonight when I can get rid of all outside light.  Benitoite crystal. Same settings & lighting conditions.  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 16, 2014 13:38:01 GMT -5
Just a few thoughts here: I'm not a trained photographer. Anything I know comes as a result of trial-and-error and persistence. But before we head off in all directions at once in this discussion I'll make a few observations and a suggestion. My experience suggests that: 1. Photographing cabochons presents specialized problems. 2. Ditto faceted gems. 3. Ditto stone-set jewelry. I doubt there's a single set of instructions or techniques that will give satisfactory results in all cases. That's made especially true since there are so many different kinds of cameras, and imaging technology is moving at such breathtaking speed. Suggestion: Maybe we should have some sort of agreement on what a "good" image of Shiny Tinies really entails. I see all sorts of gem images in this and other forums and they get varying reactions. I'd like to hear what qualities others think a "good" image should have. I think that's a great point. For instance, I love to see my cabs photographed in the light tent, with no glare or reflection. All the colors and patterns are shown at their best. BUT, they look dead. The polish seems non existent. I started photographing outside in the sun where the polish looks insane and I get far better reactions. Krystee's tntmom's cabs are stupendous and she photographs outside, for the most part, too. You can see reflections and shine. And we all know how much everyone loves her cabs! When I sell cabs, I photograph outside, when I sell jewelry, I use the light tent. AND, to throw this in the mix.... no one has mention using a polarizing filter, yet. I do. I always do and have done so for years. I wouldn't dream of not using it anymore than not using a tripod. www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filters.htmwww.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/polarizing-filters.htmAND, jamesp I put your pictures in my old PS and used the gray slider to get almost identical pictures to your outside pictures.  |
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unclestu
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Post by unclestu on Jun 16, 2014 18:44:12 GMT -5
Thats a good point about the polarizing filter. Definately reduces the glare factor.
Stu
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