unclestu
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WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
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Post by unclestu on Jun 26, 2014 19:39:22 GMT -5
In addition to making cabs and now starting to learn wire wrapping, my wife and I have been gathering a pretty nice collection of minerals and cut gem stones. With respect to the cut gem stones on occaision we make a purchase that does not have a GIA report. I have seen on Ebay for sale gem testing devices. Do these devices actually work? Thanks Stu
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 21:36:18 GMT -5
Yes and no. For some materials, though not all, the handheld devices can help separate stone from glass. At best, they can provide one piece of evidence in the process of narrowing down what you have. I am assuming that you are referring to reflectivity meters and/or thermal probes, but the same comment holds true for any individual piece of equipment.
For faceted or flat-polished stones, a refractometer narrows down things greatly. Reflectometers are a bit less accurate, but have the advantage of being more portable. A specific gravity (SG) setup is also a great piece of equipment to have (or make your own). Other simple equipment such as a dichroscope, filters, microscope, etc. can come in handy to narrow things down further. Unfortunately, an all-in-one piece of equipment to identify a stone has yet to be invented (although some of the super-expensive lab machines come close).
Then, after you've narrowed down what you have, you start looking and testing for signs of treatments such as coloring and filling or synthetic/artificial to finish up the ID and disclosure. I would love to have Mr. Spock's Tricorder, or at least something portable that would do a safe Raman scan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 10:58:56 GMT -5
Maybe gemfeller will have some insight for you too. The tricorder is becoming a reality. Our cell phones can talk to a huge array of sensors. Mark Cuban is investing in sensor tech. He believes it's the next wave of technological advancement.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 27, 2014 13:23:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the mention Scott but it appears to me that rocks2dust analyzed the problem very well. Gem ID is not a simple matter, especially when modern methods of gem treatment and synthesis are considered. I own a reflectometer and in my opinion it's completely unreliable. I've noticed some sellers are now calling them digital refractometers which is very misleading. They still measure reflectivity which varies a lot depending on the quality of polish, cleanliness of the stone, machine calibration etc. Also, many of the cheap Asian-made optical refractomers tested by expert gemologists are considered unreliable. Unfortunately quality gemological refractometers start in the $500+ range and go up a lot from there. Rocks2dust mentioned making your own testing equipment and it's a good idea. Dr. William Hanneman's "Guide to Affordable Gemology" is said to be available in a new printing at www.mineralab.com/Gemology.htm It contains basic gemology information plus instructions for making some essential instruments very inexpensively.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 27, 2014 14:21:10 GMT -5
I own a bunch of books and a ton of tools excepting an expensive refractometer. The problem is- there really isn't one kind of tool for all the gems. A good refractometer is probably as close as you'll come to one. However, I have a lot of simple, relatively cheap tools that help narrow things down quite a bit. Like a polariscope can help with garnets and spinels and filters can help with emeralds and others. After using all the tools combined with a bit of knowledge and a loupe, you can come close to a positive ID. It is no simple task and it has a bit of a learning curve. However, tools can prevent you from selling a demantoid as a peridot or a ruby as a garnet. I feel pretty confident that I have accurately id'ed 95% of my collection. But, it took a lot of work, time and tool money.
When JTV first started, I bought a lot of "spice" mixes. It helped to know what most of the standard stones in their mixes were. They used to have very, very good standard stones. Not so much the spice, although, I did get a few valuable stones including emeralds. Point is, it helps to know your source.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 27, 2014 15:43:35 GMT -5
There's actually a fairly simple way to ID transparent gems that requires only a penlight, tweezers, and an educated brain/eyeball combo. It's called the Hodgkinson Method (aka Visual Optics) after Scottish gemologist Alan Hodgkinson who systematized it. Getting maximum use from it requires considerable memorization and practice but learning just a few simple procedures can be very helpful: Rubies and garnets can be differentiated in seconds (but not whether the ruby is synthetic!) With a little practice I've found it's easy to tell diamonds from CZ, Moissanite and other transparent white gems. Unfortunately Hodgkinson's book, "Visual Optics - Gem Identification Without Instruments," is out of print. This link gives the general gist of how it works: www.cigem.ca/411.html
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 28, 2014 12:05:07 GMT -5
My subconscious rang a bell in my head this morning and I remembered something I should have mentioned in an earlier post. In the Hanneman book cited above there's an excellent chapter on Visual Optics (I assume it's still there in the Second Edition -- I have a First Edition.) The chapter is titled "Gemstone Recognition Without Instruments" and it has very helpful charts and diagrams. It shows how the human eye can yield vital gem ID info usually derived from refractometers and polariscopes. I use the method nearly every day and I believe it's well worth learning.
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Post by Roller on Aug 6, 2014 22:02:38 GMT -5
I am with gemfellar on this .. you can train the eye .. but you need to look at alot of stone"S ! all them machines can be expensive and still you need them all .. not just one !
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Post by snowmom on Aug 7, 2014 4:05:54 GMT -5
great question great info
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