swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 28, 2014 22:42:56 GMT -5
So I've ran a couple cycles of 80 grit. I've cleaned out my barrel each time, rinsing the stones, culling the stones I believe are ready for the next grit, adding new rocks to the rocks that need 80 grit again, recharging and then letting it roll. I've been keeping the barrel 4/5ths full. At first I added water until it was at the bottom of the top layer of stones. I have to thank this community for recommending only adding 2 cups water for my 12lb barrel. It is unbelievable how much a difference that made. Not sure why every other site I visited told me to add so much water. Every recharge is getting 12 tbls grit also as the barrel is full. Couple questions though: After a few days the rocks wear down and there is obviously more room in the barrel for the rocks to tumble. I'm not sure if rocks are chipping or cracking with the extra space, just a thought. Anyone add rock or media after a few days to keep the barrel full? And then if you do add rock or media, do you add a bit of extra water and grit? Should I not worry about it? How much will the next grit wear a rock down? I know the finer the grit the less wear you will have on the rocks. Right now I am being extremely picky will rocks going from 80 grit to the next stage. Basically if it's not 100% smooth it gets it again with 80 grit. How picky do I need to be? I have a rotary tumbler and when I do cleanings I am taking the rubber barrel out. Seems easier to clean the whole rubber barrel and help keep the metal exterior clean as isn't exposed to anything. I did spray the interior of the metal tumbler as it was unfinished and I read about problems with water getting in between the rubber barrel and the metal and the tumbler rusting. It was a semi-gloss spray paint I put in there. Problem is when I try to remove the rubber barrel it likes to stick to the metal and it can be a bear to get out. Slides right in when I'm ready to go again though. Any one else remove their rubber barrel for clean outs? I work 3 days on/3 days off 12 hour shifts. The 7 day cycle doesn't work well for me. Should I clean and inspect/recharge every 6 days or expand to every 10? Generally should the grit be broken down after 6 days? Here is what my clean out looked after 6 days: How does the slurry look to you? Are there too many holes in rocks like these to attempt to tumble? I pretty much have myself talked into a vibratory tumbler for all other stages other than the initial 80 grit. I like the idea it is a lot faster and uses half the grit. Also I think I need something to grind some of the rocks. Seems silly to have to wear a whole rock down when one hole is holding up the next stage. Any ideas for a cheap grinder? Here are some pics of rocks after an 80 grit cycle that I am sorting: Here are some ready for the next grit, fresh out of an 80 grit load: I'm sure there are a few questions I forgot but this should be a good start
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stephent
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 213
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Post by stephent on Jun 28, 2014 23:29:15 GMT -5
Mini-grinders are one way to start with getting some stones in better shape to tumble quick.. linkor linkLook in the Home made Equipment section... there's more. And since one of these links is what I built...I use only about 5-7 days in coarse grit now....then on to the other stages. But a couple of those rocks you posted pics of looks almost like brick chunk(s). Rather porous looking. That might grind down to nothing before it ever got solid. But a lot of those stones you posted pics of look very good. Depending on what you expect from polished stones...more time will "usually" give smoother stones. I just got tired of using almost a pound of coarse grit to finish a few pounds of stones to first stage, so I built the little stacked 4 1/2" diamond blade trimmer-grinder. It shortens the first stage grit grind down to a week....or less.
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Post by connrock on Jun 29, 2014 8:54:02 GMT -5
After a few days the rocks wear down and there is obviously more room in the barrel for the rocks to tumble. I'm not sure if rocks are chipping or cracking with the extra space, just a thought. Anyone add rock or media after a few days to keep the barrel full? And then if you do add rock or media, do you add a bit of extra water and grit? Should I not worry about it?
I've never added rocks to the rough during a cycle.I add rocks after 7-10 days of roughing if needed.As the rocks get ground down the slurry gets thicker and thicker which (I think) keeps some types of rocks from chipping and cracking.
How much will the next grit wear a rock down? I know the finer the grit the less wear you will have on the rocks. Right now I am being extremely picky will rocks going from 80 grit to the next stage. Basically if it's not 100% smooth it gets it again with 80 grit. How picky do I need to be?
After the rough stage the rocks don't wear down much at all.In every stage after roughing,, all that is really happening is that the rocks are getting smoother and smoother and very little is removed form them. If you save 1 rock,,, that is the same type,,,,after each stage from rough to polish and examine them with a 10x loupe you can see how the surface has gotten smoother after each stage yet not much has been removed form the rocks. You'll find that the surface is similar to looking at sand paper from rough paper to a very fine paper.Even after a final polish the surface still have very,very tiny "bumps",,,the smaller the "bumps" ,,,the better the shine. How picky you are depends on how picky you are about what your end results will be.If you're very picky about your end results then you have to be very picky throughout the entire process.If you don't really care about your polished rocks having flaws in them,,,you don't have to be as picky. A friend used to say,,,"Good enough is never good enough"!It's all up to you and your standards.
I have a rotary tumbler and when I do cleanings I am taking the rubber barrel out. Seems easier to clean the whole rubber barrel and help keep the metal exterior clean as isn't exposed to anything. I did spray the interior of the metal tumbler as it was unfinished and I read about problems with water getting in between the rubber barrel and the metal and the tumbler rusting. It was a semi-gloss spray paint I put in there. Problem is when I try to remove the rubber barrel it likes to stick to the metal and it can be a bear to get out. Slides right in when I'm ready to go again though. Any one else remove their rubber barrel for clean outs?
I have 2 tumblers like yours and always remove the barrels for clean up. The reason the barrels go in easy is that the rocks are "dispersed" from the top to bottom of the barrel. When you take the barrel out the rocks have worn down and are "packed' in the lower portion of the barrel causing a "bottle neck" where the barrel doesn't want to come out of the metal frame. I became VERY frustrated with this and as usual went to the extreme of making an elaborate "gizmo" that involved putting a 1-1/2" hole in the center/bottom of the metal frame,2 "hold downs" to hold the barrel while I use a lever-system to push upward to remove the barrels. I don't think painting the inside of the metal fame helped barrel removal at all but it is what it is now. I don't know if it will help you now but I spray the outside of my barrels with a silicone spray which helps them to slide out much better.
I work 3 days on/3 days off 12 hour shifts. The 7 day cycle doesn't work well for me. Should I clean and inspect/recharge every 6 days or expand to every 10? Generally should the grit be broken down after 6 days? Here is what my clean out looked after 6 days:
If you have a complete grit break down in 6 days you don't have to wait until 10 days to recharge the load.If you have grit left after 6 days then you have to let the load go longer until the 80 grit breaks down completely.
How does the slurry look to you?
The slurry looks good to me.
Are there too many holes in rocks like these to attempt to tumble?
Personally I wouldn't bother tumbling these rocks.Even if they were pre-ground there wouldn't be much left to them.It's hard to tell from photos but they also look to be pretty soft to me too. You can always break them up and use them as filler.
Any ideas for a cheap grinder?
I VERY seldom grind any rocks before roughing so I'm not much help here.
Good luck,,, connrock
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,169
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Post by jamesp on Jun 29, 2014 11:11:27 GMT -5
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 29, 2014 14:21:54 GMT -5
How can you tell if the grit is broke down or not?
I appreciate all the links to grinders and other equipment. I plan on building my own to suite my needs. As other's have pointed out it saves a lot on grit and time, especially if there is one deep hole on the rock.
I will definitely be trying the silicone spray to help remove the barrel. Didn't even think of that.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 29, 2014 14:57:52 GMT -5
Listen to Connrock, he knows his stuff, and he's a great teacher.
You can tell if the grit is broken down by feeling it. Rub some slurry between your fingers and you should be able to feel grittiness if there's some left. If it feels smooth, it's time to change it.
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Post by connrock on Jun 30, 2014 8:24:21 GMT -5
I'd like to add to what Jugglerguy said about the grit,,,,,,, While the tumbler barrel is upright,,,on it's end,,, and your taking the wing nuts off,,, most of the heavy slurry and any left over grit will settle to the very bottom of the barrel. In most cases when you dump out the rocks a few may even get stuck on the bottom of the barrel. Take a tablespoon or 2 of that muck in the bottom of the barrel; and put it into a glass of water and stir it up a little.Let it sit for a few seconds and pour off the cloudy/dirty water.Fill the glass again with clean water and do the same thing.After doing this 3-4 times the water should stay pretty clear and if you let the glass sit for a minute or so you will see any grit that is left from the load.
If the grit in the bottom of the glass is as coarse,,,or nearly as coarse,,, as 80 grit,,,you haven't let the load tumble long enough for the grit to break down enough. If the grit in the bottom of the barrel is finer and smooth,,,,you've broken down the grit enough.
Different shape/size barrels work faster/slower,,,,different tumbling "recipes" work differently,,,different types of rocks react differently,,,and it goes on and on. You just fond out that using less water works much better for you yet others swear by the method of filling the barrel to the bottom of the rocks and some people even cover the rocks with water and have good results.
Every little thing we do causes some kind of reaction when we tumble rocks and what works for one doesn't always work for all. After gathering a lot of different information,from different people and different sources we form our own tumbling "recipe" because it's the one that works for US. Trial and error,,,success and failure are the BEST teachers but one thing that is VERY important(especially to a newbie) is consistency and notes. Even if your doing something wrong,,,,as long as you keep doing it the same it can be corrected.But if you keep jumping around doing things different every time,,,it almost impossible to nail down what's wrong. Taking notes as you change methods,grits,equipment are very important so you can look back to see what you did or didn't do to either fail or succeed. connrock
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 30, 2014 20:02:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely try the glass of water trick to see how my grit is wearing. I have been keeping notes on my tumbles as I had seen that as a suggestion in one of the posts I was looking at on this forum. I try to read as much as I can to learn from folks who have been there - done that and then tweak it to fit my needs. I'm really glad I found this forum as you guys are a great source of information and are a friendly bunch to boot!!
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jun 30, 2014 20:08:49 GMT -5
What ceramic media would you recommend. I see there are different sizes. I am looking at getting a vibe tumbler in the near future as soon as I work enough overtime to buy one so the ceramic media would be used in that. I do have beads but they are a pain to sort/clean (at least the initial way I was tumbling).
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 30, 2014 20:55:49 GMT -5
I use a mix of small and large, probably about 50/50. I got them from The Rock Shed. I exchanged a couple emails with the manufacturer of the Lot-O tumbler. He told me about aluminum oxide pellets they sell that are more durable and have a higher specific gravity than ceramic pellets. I think Connrock told me about these before. They're more expensive and I don't know anything else about them. You can get the aluminum oxide pellets here. I think I'll start another thread to discuss them, since it won't get much attention here.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Jun 30, 2014 23:18:42 GMT -5
First, you're doing great.
Second Jugglerguy and Connrock have given a lot of great and sound advice. Connrock hand-held me through my first couple tumbles and he knows his stuff.
The only thing I would contribute is that I will let my rocks run in coarse as long as my schedule needs them to. I always go at least 10 days but I've had to leave them running for a month because that's how it played out and they were fine.
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