quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Sept 26, 2014 23:05:45 GMT -5
You've done pretty well there, lots of effort. Thanks for all the time involved in the method and progress presentation. Nice thing about this forum, like going to school from home.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Sept 26, 2014 23:50:17 GMT -5
Certainly glad you took the time to make this thread. Learned a little something.
I like pic #1 the best. Them's some beauties!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 7:04:05 GMT -5
Obsidian seem to like to break your heart. Perhaps vibe is required for the very gentle finish and a truly wet look polish? Still, this thread was an epic set of knowledge gathered. Thank you friend. It may be. Will persist w/the rotary. Gotta be some way.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 7:06:36 GMT -5
Certainly glad you took the time to make this thread. Learned a little something. I like pic #1 the best. Them's some beauties! It was all fun. Looking forward to the tk experiment results now. Weight removal
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Post by orrum on Sept 27, 2014 7:35:03 GMT -5
Great job and fantastic recording and presentation James!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 27, 2014 8:09:10 GMT -5
a wealth of knowledge in this thread indeed. not a bad looking tumble and they do not have the frosted edges that are most common.
If your interested in a true rotary to vibe comparison you can send me a couple pounds of your finished material and I'll put them through a quick lot-o run from 120 thru polish then send them right back to you that way you will have a side by side true comparison with identical rocks.
Chuck
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Post by connrock on Sept 27, 2014 8:21:19 GMT -5
Sorry for missing this James,,,, "Tom, have you had the larger obsidians in your batch get a lesser shine than the smaller ones. Or had impact pits on the larger ones?"
If a batch comes out good everything looks great no matter what the sizes of the obsidian is,,,big,small all look great. No impact pits on larger ones but I have had trouble with,, what I think are tiny gas pockets throughout the obsidian. connrock
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Post by connrock on Sept 27, 2014 8:30:46 GMT -5
James this thread is VERY informative and helpful to say the least! I know you can get a MUCH higher luster on the finished obsidian in a rotary as I have done it years ago before I got my Lot-O. Do you think you can please list your entire process in a "list form",,,,,, 1) 72 hrs 60 grit 2) 48 hrs 220 grit
My mind isn't where it should be lately and I'm having a tough time following all of your steps from page to page. Thanks for doing this thread connrock
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 17:43:41 GMT -5
a wealth of knowledge in this thread indeed. not a bad looking tumble and they do not have the frosted edges that are most common. If your interested in a true rotary to vibe comparison you can send me a couple pounds of your finished material and I'll put them through a quick lot-o run from 120 thru polish then send them right back to you that way you will have a side by side true comparison with identical rocks. Chuck Let's do that. PM address. Thanks. Chuck, I ran low on filler and did not put enough sugar for a 24 hour period and did get frost damage. Just individual spots here and there. When I opened the tumbler the next day and noticed the slurry was too thin I knew I bruised them. Mostly on the big ones. But I was glad that my instinct was correct. Next time I will know and have tumbled extra glass filler for the next run. However, I need to figure out a filler to polish with. Not happy with the glass filler for polishing, but it served well in the other grits. I know you can jazz them with the Lot-O. Now I am in a fight with the obsidian and the rotary though. I am going to tame that rotary one way or the other to do obsidian
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 17:46:44 GMT -5
Great job and fantastic recording and presentation James! I got a copy too orrum. Diary public too, for those interested. All that I did was documented. I hope it helps,
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 18:46:57 GMT -5
James this thread is VERY informative and helpful to say the least! I know you can get a MUCH higher luster on the finished obsidian in a rotary as I have done it years ago before I got my Lot-O. Do you think you can please list your entire process in a "list form",,,,,, 1) 72 hrs 60 grit 2) 48 hrs 220 grit My mind isn't where it should be lately and I'm having a tough time following all of your steps from page to page. Thanks for doing this thread connrock The diary is hard to follow. A list is easy Tom. The recipe was mixed up. Because I skipped 1000 grit and had to redo them.I want to do it again. Next time I will do this: 1) pre-grind 2) 5 days in 30/60 and 5 more in new 30/60 at fast 60 RPM if needed.(Maybe just 7 days on one grit) 3) 3 days in 220 at 12 RPM 4) 3 days in 500 at 12 RPM 5) 3 days in 1000 at 12 RPM 6) 3 days in 5000 at 12 RPM 7) 3 days 1n 14,000 at 12 RPM, but a filler that will get me a polish. I am certain the filler was a problem in getting polish. If that works, I will try 2 days instead of 3 days of those steps on the next batch. And then try 1 day each on the next batch. I felt like each grit did it's job in 24 hours looking at the photos. So I hope to do 5+5+1+1+1+1+1= 15 days. For a quick obsidian rotary tumble.
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Post by orrum on Sept 27, 2014 20:56:06 GMT -5
Ok James I have tumbled rose quartz to round in my rotary with half ceramic media to avoid bruising. I got a sneaking suspicion you should try ceramics. But do it JamesP style!!!! Bust up some sinks n commode from the scrap yard and use them as ceramics for your polish stage.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 27, 2014 22:04:30 GMT -5
Ok James I have tumbled rose quartz to round in my rotary with half ceramic media to avoid bruising. I got a sneaking suspicion you should try ceramics. But do it JamesP style!!!! Bust up some sinks n commode from the scrap yard and use them as ceramics for your polish stage. The knappers say toilets make great arrowheads. Speared by a toilet part, ouch!
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Post by gingerkid on Sept 27, 2014 22:41:57 GMT -5
Your obsidian tumbles are perfect, jamesp! The knappers say toilets make great arrowheads. Speared by a toilet part, ouch!
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Post by captbob on Sept 27, 2014 23:55:53 GMT -5
I'm only on page 4 and probably won't finish this tonight as I'm reading everything slowly, or twice! But this is killing me... why are you not using plastic pellets to cushion? Hope I find out in the next 7 pages! oh, yeah... top 1% thread here ETA: Finished. Very interesting. I appreciate all the work/time involved. Probably have a few questions, but I'd better sleep on them first to come up with the right wording. Okay, one question for now. You may have posted the answer, but why were you going through steps so fast?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Sept 28, 2014 6:28:26 GMT -5
Your obsidian tumbles are perfect, jamesp! The knappers say toilets make great arrowheads. Speared by a toilet part, ouch! Thanks Jan. It's true, toilet porcelain is a fine beginners practice material. It s consistent and chips sweet. not sure about the smell
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Post by connrock on Sept 28, 2014 6:44:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the list of your procedure James!Makes it a LOT easier for me to comprehend. I'd like to add my 2 cents worth on you final results and I'm NOT trying to be a know-it-all or a smart guy,,,,,, In this photo Under sun dry, I see obsidian that has a finish that looks as though it came out of a 1000 grit stage and not a polish stage. You said that you are certain it was the filler you used that caused you to not get a high luster finish. captbob asked why you're not using plastic pellets and I have to ask the same question? If you need plastic pellets I cans end you all you'll ever need,,,,, When I worked in our lab,customers tried different "recipes" to make tier plastic pellets for their products.Typically a customer would run his recipe for 3-5 days which created zillions of plastic pellets.The customer would ship small batches of the pellets home and we had to deal with getting rid of all the other pellets left from all of their tests! I used to use a lot of pellets when I only had rotary tumblers but when I started using the vibes I didn't have much use for them as vibes/pellets don't get along well. When I did a lot of trading I even used the pellets as a cushion/filler in all the flat rate boxes I shipped! LOL So,,,,I can send you as many large flat rate boxes of pellets as you would like,,,,free of course!I owe you for the coral you sent me anyway! connrock
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Sept 28, 2014 6:58:17 GMT -5
I'm only on page 4 and probably won't finish this tonight as I'm reading everything slowly, or twice! But this is killing me... why are you not using plastic pellets to cushion? Hope I find out in the next 7 pages! oh, yeah... top 1% thread here ETA: Finished. Very interesting. I appreciate all the work/time involved. Probably have a few questions, but I'd better sleep on them first to come up with the right wording. Okay, one question for now. You may have posted the answer, but why were you going through steps so fast? I'll take the good words captbob and thanks. A lot. Fast because the obsidian is so soft. If the media and lubricating sugar will do each grind fast then It makes for a fast tumble. fun For instance, it was clear that the 220 step was like satin after 36 hours. It just ground the rough 30/60 surface like there was nothing to it. That step is pretty visible to the eye. I was stunned when I pulled samples at 24 hours to see what looked like a 220 finish. The glass media was pretty small. But the obsidians were large, 3 of them over 6 ounces. So it was not even a 'balanced' load. Did not seem to have a cushioning problem. but that may be the problem. I seemed to have a polishing problem. Sure could be a cushioning issue. All the grits did fine. It was the final polish that gave me a hard time. And the skip in grit from 1000 to 14,000 bothers me(18 to 1 ratio in size step). The plastic may be the answer for the polish.I have this batch to experiment with. These will get redone in 5000 and 14000 to see if that solves problem. I need softer media. Softer than the obsidian. Will rerun in softer media if needed.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
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Post by jamesp on Sept 28, 2014 7:15:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the list of your procedure James!Makes it a LOT easier for me to comprehend. I'd like to add my 2 cents worth on you final results and I'm NOT trying to be a know-it-all or a smart guy,,,,,, In this photo Under sun dry, I see obsidian that has a finish that looks as though it came out of a 1000 grit stage and not a polish stage. You said that you are certain it was the filler you used that caused you to not get a high luster finish. captbob asked why you're not using plastic pellets and I have to ask the same question? If you need plastic pellets I cans end you all you'll ever need,,,,, When I worked in our lab,customers tried different "recipes" to make tier plastic pellets for their products.Typically a customer would run his recipe for 3-5 days which created zillions of plastic pellets.The customer would ship small batches of the pellets home and we had to deal with getting rid of all the other pellets left from all of their tests! I used to use a lot of pellets when I only had rotary tumblers but when I started using the vibes I didn't have much use for them as vibes/pellets don't get along well. When I did a lot of trading I even used the pellets as a cushion/filler in all the flat rate boxes I shipped! LOL So,,,,I can send you as many large flat rate boxes of pellets as you would like,,,,free of course!I owe you for the coral you sent me anyway! connrock I agree Tom. Problems in 1000 to 14000. You said it in a nutshell, the thick sugar slurry is not breaking down the grit. But it cuts it to the grit size quick via lubrication. So skipping 5000 worries me. I do not think the 14,000 can grind the 1000 scratches away in thick sugar slurry. 1000 to 14,000 is an 18 to 1 jump in grit size. By far the biggest gap. 220 to 500 to 1000 is all 3 to 1 jumps. If you stick a 5000 step in there you will have 4 to 1 from 1000 to 5000 and 4 to 1 from 5000 to 14,000. Got the 5000 on order. Will rerun these in 5000 and 14,000 to see if that solves it. If not, then will try media changes.
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39don
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by 39don on Sept 28, 2014 8:39:31 GMT -5
I tumble with a vib 99% of the time and have had problems with the cushion effect in the final polishing stage. That was the problem till I picked up James was using sugar. I tried it, too much first time, I got it right the second time using tin oxide. The vib must be completely full when using sugar. My polish time was reduced significantly plus having as good a polish as I ever had on Agate's and Jasper's.
Thanks James
39don
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