gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 18, 2014 22:20:43 GMT -5
The other stone that many dealers misrepresent is the "Seafoam Jasper". It should be obvious that this stuff is dyed and probably reconstituted. There are simply too many different colors and varities available - i.e a red, a blue, a green, a purple, etc. and this should be the first tip off. True red or purple stones (without any masking) might be the least common colors in natural stones. Even when you pick-up a piece of "seafoam whatever" it doesn't have the same weight as a jasper. The first time I saw the "purple turquoise" was about four or five years ago. I thought it was manufactured more recently than 20 years ago but don't know for sure. Do a little searching and you'll find they're selling just about every color of "turquoise" imaginable. Consumers gobble it up hungrily while passing over the real thing. Human nature's gullible and the marketers figured out how to exploit it long, long ago. The scam that really pi$$es me off is "Crab Fire Agate." It's all phony ceramic junk but it apparently sells like hotcakes. www.google.com/search?q=crab+fire+agate&biw=1536&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GaAbVJ6cOsOUyATmv4KQBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CE4QsAQ |
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
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Post by RocknCritter on Sept 18, 2014 22:42:13 GMT -5
The other stone that many dealers misrepresent is the "Seafoam Jasper". It should be obvious that this stuff is dyed and probably reconstituted. There are simply too many different colors and varities available - i.e a red, a blue, a green, a purple, etc. and this should be the first tip off. True red or purple stones (without any masking) might be the least common colors in natural stones. Even when you pick-up a piece of "seafoam whatever" it doesn't have the same weight as a jasper. The first time I saw the "purple turquoise" was about four or five years ago. I thought it was manufactured more recently than 20 years ago but don't know for sure. Do a little searching and you'll find they're selling just about every color of "turquoise" imaginable. Consumers gobble it up hungrily while passing over the real thing. Human nature's gullible and the marketers figured out how to exploit it long, long ago. The scam that really pi$$es me off is "Crab Fire Agate." It's all phony ceramic junk but it apparently sells like hotcakes. www.google.com/search?q=crab+fire+agate&biw=1536&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GaAbVJ6cOsOUyATmv4KQBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CE4QsAQI see plenty of the colored turquoise at the gem shows (Only 18 this year or 111+ since 2008.). So no searching necessary. Fortunately I still sell plenty of real turquoise to jewelers who want the genuine stuff.....  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 10:35:57 GMT -5
well, "white bufallo" turquoise has turned out to be nearly pure aragonite and calcite.
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Don
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He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
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Post by Don on Sept 19, 2014 11:02:58 GMT -5
The other stone that many dealers misrepresent is the "Seafoam Jasper". It should be obvious that this stuff is dyed and probably reconstituted. There are simply too many different colors and varities available - i.e a red, a blue, a green, a purple, etc. and this should be the first tip off. True red or purple stones (without any masking) might be the least common colors in natural stones. Even when you pick-up a piece of "seafoam whatever" it doesn't have the same weight as a jasper. The first time I saw the "purple turquoise" was about four or five years ago. I thought it was manufactured more recently than 20 years ago but don't know for sure. Do a little searching and you'll find they're selling just about every color of "turquoise" imaginable. Consumers gobble it up hungrily while passing over the real thing. Human nature's gullible and the marketers figured out how to exploit it long, long ago. The scam that really pi$$es me off is "Crab Fire Agate." It's all phony ceramic junk but it apparently sells like hotcakes. www.google.com/search?q=crab+fire+agate&biw=1536&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GaAbVJ6cOsOUyATmv4KQBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CE4QsAQI'm with you there, buddy. That "crab" fire agate junk drives me nuts when I see people selling it as fire agate at shows. #dlcgems |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 19, 2014 12:54:24 GMT -5
well, "white bufallo" turquoise has turned out to be nearly pure aragonite and calcite. That was one of the worst "turquoise" scams. About 10 years ago I spent about an hour with a turquoise seller who claimed to have lab papers proving it to be genuine turquoise. Of course when I asked to see them he didn't have them handy. Then there was the turquoise cutter I met in Battle Mountain, NV who showed me how to make webbed turquoise. He simply mixed cerium oxide with epoxy and daubed it into crevices on the non-webbed stone, then polished it. It was pretty convincing for some types of turquoise. When it fell apart the tourist would be miles away from Battle Mountain. I used to have fun with this piece at shows. I set it out with my regular turquoise and customers would want to buy it immediately. "Are you sure?" I asked, while showing them a similar piece I'd sawed in half. It's pure white howlite dyed with a blue toilet cleaner I can't recall the name of. Black shoe polish creates the "webbing." Lots of scams out there.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 15:43:30 GMT -5
I think what buffalo is not a past tense scam. I think it is still being perpetrated. Selling dense chalk by the carat! woohoo!
Nice to see your howlite piece. I have heard of it but never saw it. You could offer it for sale by honestly saying - "this specimen is not turquoise" in normal size black letters and below that in big red letters, like this
Honestly represented! lol
edited to add:
I only have been to one show besides quartzite last year. At that show the white buffalo guy was there and he was selling it for like $1 gram or some stupid number. I heard him tell a suspicious client that is was [his exact words]
as if minerals each were a genus and there were many species, one of which is albino. I asked him what Kingdom they were in. He looked and me with a blank stare. So I explained my question.
I wanted to go further. I wanted to ask him how he bred his turquoise and if he had figured out if the genetics are recessive or dominant, but he was in too deep and I didn't want to embarrass him any further.
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Post by radio on Sept 19, 2014 16:43:03 GMT -5
well, "white bufallo" turquoise has turned out to be nearly pure aragonite and calcite. Thank you!!!! I have been explaining for years that the "White Buffalo" being sold these days is a ripoff! Many folks just cut Howlite or Magnasite and pawn it off as WB and get good money for the story they tell with it. The true White Buffalo is highly collectible and brings big money, so it was only natural that people would capitalize on it. If it does not have flecks of blue among the white.....RUN! |
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Post by radio on Sept 19, 2014 16:54:12 GMT -5
I think what buffalo is not a past tense scam. I think it is still being perpetrated. Selling dense chalk by the carat! woohoo! Nice to see your howlite piece. I have heard of it but never saw it. You could offer it for sale by honestly saying - "this specimen is not turquoise" in normal size black letters and below that in big red letters, like this Honestly represented! lol edited to add: I only have been to one show besides quartzite last year. At that show the white buffalo guy was there and he was selling it for like $1 gram or some stupid number. I heard him tell a suspicious client that is was [his exact words] as if minerals each were a genus and there were many species, one of which is albino. I asked him what Kingdom they were in. He looked and me with a blank stare. So I explained my question. I wanted to go further. I wanted to ask him how he bred his turquoise and if he had figured out if the genetics are recessive or dominant, but he was in too deep and I didn't want to embarrass him any further. Knowing you, the word "Leucistic" or "Amelanistic" was probably also used  I have flat pizzed some people off who showed me a prize piece of "Turquoise" jewelry they bought from a guy "Off the reservation" in Arizona. Dyed Howlite and Magnasite are very prevalent in jewelry pieces these days. I even made a very heavy sterling ring and set a dyed cab in it for display only. I often put three to 4 rings on the counter and ask customers to pick the fake Turquoise. 9 times out of 10 they will pick either the Morenci or Blue Gem as fake . I have even had customers try to buy the ring with the fake stuff they thought it was so pretty and well done. I need to take a pic of it I suppose. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 16:56:59 GMT -5
CZ is simulated diamond.
If you sold it as "simulated turquoise" and asked high prices because it looked good and it sold, then all is well. Nobody was misled or taken advantage of.
Yes, post a pic
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spiritstone
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Post by spiritstone on Sept 19, 2014 18:21:12 GMT -5
I have a few with some kind of crystals? stinkn out of a couple. Would that be turq?
Interesting thread.
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Post by phil on Sept 19, 2014 18:36:39 GMT -5
I have a few with some kind of crystals? stinkn out of a couple. Would that be turq? Interesting thread. post a pic.... |
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spiritstone
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Post by spiritstone on Sept 19, 2014 18:46:13 GMT -5
Thought i had a pic, hmmm. Be back in a few mins with a shot.
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spiritstone
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Post by spiritstone on Sept 19, 2014 19:06:32 GMT -5
Thought i had a pic, hmmm. Be back in a few mins with a shot. This one I keep separate in a cabinet from the others. Why? I dont know... because it looks rare.  Where it came from, I cant recall it right now. I guess that comes with age  I also have some blue as in the scam one, but they dont look fake? I guess they should be sliced to check for authenticity? Thanks for your assistance.    |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 19, 2014 19:36:20 GMT -5
[quote author=" radio" source="/post/767473/thread" timestamp="1411162983The true White Buffalo is highly collectible and brings big money, so it was only natural that people would capitalize on it. If it does not have flecks of blue among the white.....RUN! [/quote] Tell me more. I don't believe there's such a thing as "white turquoise," White Buffalo or otherwise, but I'm always open to factual persuasion. The stuff they try to sell as white turquoise has no metallic content. They try to sell chalchosiderite as white turquoise but it's an entirely different mineral. The chemical formula for turquoise is Cu Al6 (PO4)4 (OH)8 4H0, i.e, an hydrous phosphate of alumina carrying small quantities of copper and sometimes iron. So no copper, no turquoise. Now the blue flecks you mention may be copper but my on-line research indicates that the Dry Creek/White Buffalo lacks metal. This link is so full of self-serving double-talk it's hilarious: www.durangosilver.com/white-turquoise.html |
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Post by radio on Sept 19, 2014 20:03:22 GMT -5
[quote author=" radio" source="/post/767473/thread" timestamp="1411162983The true White Buffalo is highly collectible and brings big money, so it was only natural that people would capitalize on it. If it does not have flecks of blue among the white.....RUN! Tell me more. I don't believe there's such a thing as "white turquoise," White Buffalo or otherwise, but I'm always open to factual persuasion. The stuff they try to sell as white turquoise has no metallic content. They try to sell chalchosiderite as white turquoise but it's an entirely different mineral. The chemical formula for turquoise is Cu Al6 (PO4)4 (OH)8 4H0, i.e, an hydrous phosphate of alumina carrying small quantities of copper and sometimes iron. So no copper, no turquoise. Now the blue flecks you mention may be copper but my on-line research indicates that the Dry Creek/White Buffalo lacks metal. This link is so full of self-serving double-talk it's hilarious: www.durangosilver.com/white-turquoise.html[/quote] I don't claim to be an expert on White Buffalo and have only seen a couple of pieces. My information was passed to me by an old timer who forgot more about Turquoise than I will likely ever know. His opinion was the one and only White Buffalo mine was discovered by Native Americans some time in the mid to late 1800's and was depleted in the early 30's or perhaps 1940's. He knew of no supply of the material as what there was of it was all used in jewelry. He said once in a great while one can see some in an estate sale and it can always be identified by the flecks of blue in the white material. This is the only photo I have of what is supposed to be the real deal  |
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Post by radio on Sept 19, 2014 20:17:59 GMT -5
Thought i had a pic, hmmm. Be back in a few mins with a shot. This one I keep separate in a cabinet from the others. Why? I dont know... because it looks rare. Where it came from, I cant recall it right now. I guess that comes with age I also have some blue as in the scam one, but they dont look fake? I guess they should be sliced to check for authenticity? Thanks for your assistance. Hard to tell from a computer screen, but looks to be Mexican of some persuasion. I have seen a few pieces of Aqua colored Kingman with quartz, but it seems to be more common in the Mexican material. Do you know how old it is by any chance? |
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
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Post by RocknCritter on Sept 19, 2014 21:02:33 GMT -5
I have a few with some kind of crystals? stinkn out of a couple. Would that be turq? Interesting thread. Besides one mine in Virginia (of all places), turquoise doesn't form as crystals. It's almost always a cryptocrytalline mineral. The turquoise crystals from Virginia are too small to cut. |
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RocknCritter
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2008
Posts: 489
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Post by RocknCritter on Sept 19, 2014 21:08:15 GMT -5
I just checked Wikipedia and found this:
"In 1912, the first deposit of distinct, single-crystal turquoise was discovered in Lynch Station, Campbell County, Virginia. The crystals, forming a druse over the mother rock, are very small; 1 mm (0.04 in) is considered large. Until the 1980s Virginia was widely thought to be the only source of distinct crystals; there are now at least 27 other localities.[7]"
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spiritstone
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Post by spiritstone on Sept 19, 2014 21:26:29 GMT -5
My best estimate would be on my shelf at least 15 to 18 yrs. Looks a lot like the Kingman. i found this link which also had some info on the White Buffalo. Thanks for the help. White Buffalo--also known as White Buffalo Turquoise--is a gemstone that is mined in northern Nevada, and sometimes Utah. It was presumed to be turquoise and often sold as such; however; its classification is magnesite and alumite. ebegay.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BJ&Product_Code=R12&Category_Code=Rings |
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Post by radio on Sept 20, 2014 8:31:39 GMT -5
My best estimate would be on my shelf at least 15 to 18 yrs. Looks a lot like the Kingman. i found this link which also had some info on the White Buffalo. Thanks for the help. White Buffalo--also known as White Buffalo Turquoise--is a gemstone that is mined in northern Nevada, and sometimes Utah. It was presumed to be turquoise and often sold as such; however; its classification is magnesite and alumite. ebegay.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BJ&Product_Code=R12&Category_Code=RingsThe Kingman with quartz was mostly mined during the 60's and possibly as late as the 70's. That's not to say that some could not have been mined more recently. Keep in mind that the Kingman mine encompasses Aztek Peak and Ithica Peak in the Cerbat mountains in Mohave County which encompasses a lot of ground. In the early days, it was common to buy Turquoise named after the locality, but these days everything is under the generic "Kingman" name. |
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