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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 9, 2014 20:13:26 GMT -5
A friend of mine who helped get me started with this hobby is moving and found a box of old stuff that he gave me today. He sold me a really old flat lap when I first got started and he thought some of this stuff might go with it. He bought the all the lapidary supplies of a deceased man from the man's son and has never used any of this, so he couldn't tell me much about it. I'm sure some of you can help me out. First up is a box of polish pastes. They are sort of like Zam sticks. The tops come of like a tube of lipstick and there's a stick of wax like stuff inside. I recognize the names of the polishes, but I don't know how to use them in stick form. There's Linde A (heard of it, don't know what it is), tin oxide, cerium oxide, etc. The glass jar has a black powder in it. There are no labels on any of these colorful things. Maybe the last two items go on these buffer wheels? I don't have a buffing machine to use these on. That little brush like thing seems to be homemade. There are a bunch of little nails in the end of a board. I'm not sure what the thing with the nut on the right is. It has two set screws on the black part on the left. I looked up "alumina" and it seems to be aluminum oxide. I think one micron is smaller than most aluminum oxide used for tumbling. Is this for polishing cabs? There's a tiny bit of powder in here. No clue what it's for. This Raybrite is nicely stored in a jar of cerium oxide. What's raybrite for? I read this, but I still don't know what it's for. There are six or eight of these diamond sprays. What do I spray them on? I have a flat lap and I just bought a Kingsley/Lortone cabber that I can add flat laps to the ends of. These are the most interesting items. They're some sort of polishing cups made of wood. The machined holders look well made. One threads onto my flat lap. The other is not threaded on the bottom, but fits over my flat lap bolt. I haven't played with it much, but the wooden cup is stuck in it. There's a set screw on the side, but it looks like a screw may have gone all the way through to the other side of the bottom hole. It may also be threaded further in the bottom hole. I have to get that wooden cup out to look at it better, but I was excited to show you guys these. Any idea what machine this goes on? There are about a half dozen of these cups. Some are shallow, others are deep and more curved, some are small. I'm not sure why there were templates of the shape stuck in the box. Do any of you know the purpose of these cups or how they're used? Do you wet them, add polish and work your cabs around the bottom? Do the cabs have to have just the right curvature to work with these?
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spiritstone
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Member since August 2014
Posts: 2,061
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Post by spiritstone on Oct 9, 2014 20:42:03 GMT -5
Lucky guy. The containers are all polish compounds for cabs. The bowls are just as you thought for pastes and it looks like you have some attachments for doing inside curves. Looks like the fellow also marked the wood bowls on what grit of diamond he was using in each not to cross contaminate.
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,853
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 9, 2014 21:29:28 GMT -5
A number of the items are specifically for polishing jewelry metals. In #3 there's an inside ring buff, a wooden spindle for attaching emery paper to sand inside surfaces like rings, a muslin buff to carry metal polishes like your Fabulustre and Tripoli, jeweler's rouge etc. You have what appears to be a hard felt buff at upper left, which is spun on to the cone-shaped metal piece with threads. The threaded piece attaches to a motor spindle and they come in right and left-hand types and are designed to attach to polishing motors with double shafts. You'll have to figure out which way it's supposed to spin. The buff at lower right is designed for that type of spindle. The other two buffs on the bottom appear to be felt buffs that attach with the shaft collar with flanges. If they're soft and floppy maybe they're designed for horizontal use with a back-plate. One seems to be marked "cerium," another "rouge" and I suspect they're used used with the cerium Bruce Bar or rouge. I think the funny homemade item with nails is for removing threads from muslin buffs and for reconditioning the faces of other buffs. The wooden bowls are very interesting. I think you'll have to figure out if they were used with the Bruce Bar abrasives/polishes or with diamond compound. You might try gently heating the metal holder with the "stuck" insert while gently tapping on the wood. Maybe the metal will expand enough to release the insert. Refractol is used mainly by faceters to see inclusions inside transparent gem rough. It has a refractive index close to a number of gem species and makes it easier to get a look inside the stones. Here's a guide for use: www.prettyrock.com/refractol-instructions.htmLinde A is the finest aluminum oxide polish; it's carefully graded to .3 micron size. It was originally made by the Linde Air Products Co. It can be pretty expensive. It's used both in faceting and as a final oxide polish in cabbing. Raybrite A is Raytech's version of Linde A but I don't think it's manufactured to the same standards as the Linde product -- I could be wrong. You really have great friends! There's a lot of cash value in that gift if you had to buy all that stuff new.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,690
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 9, 2014 22:12:27 GMT -5
That tube of fabulustre is a great polisher for ammonite and baculite fossils....
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 10, 2014 9:09:46 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Does anyone have more specific information on the wooden bowls? Why would I use them instead of a cabber or flat lap? Are they for a specific dome size? What's the advantage?
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Post by pghram on Oct 10, 2014 9:12:04 GMT -5
I seem to remember Bobby1 discussing polishing on wood before, perhaps he could provide some more info.
Rich
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Post by NM Stone Supply on Oct 10, 2014 9:37:37 GMT -5
I am guessing that the wooden bowels were used for some opal. Jason
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Post by Pat on Oct 10, 2014 10:02:41 GMT -5
In your third photo, top middle, the three cones (metal, wood, and wood with soft fabric) and to polish the inside of rings.
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Post by gingerkid on Oct 10, 2014 10:17:07 GMT -5
Wow, that's some very nice goodies you got there from your friend that introduced you to the lapidary arts, Jugglerguy! Interested to hear more about the wooden bowls, too. Have seen the wooden wheels and spools and wonder if the bowls might be what were used before the phenolic wheels and spools were produced?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 10, 2014 10:19:32 GMT -5
Seems like the bowls would work just like the wooden spools that are sold for polishing cabs. I know the spools are used a lot of opals too. This is the graves spool polisher for reference and tells how to use the wood with diamond polishes www.gravescompany.com/spool.htmchuck
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 10:19:56 GMT -5
I agree, the wooden bowls are for polishing softer stones and give them a very fine sheen.
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Post by gingerkid on Oct 10, 2014 10:23:15 GMT -5
Noticed that there are grit sizes written on the sides of the bowl.
Have a phenolic 'mini' spool that attaches to the CabMate that you can clean with alcohol and sandpaper.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 10, 2014 11:36:35 GMT -5
I have never done anything with opals and I don't have any plans to do so. I do work with Petoskey stone and Kona dolomite though, which are both soft. I've been using Zam on a felt Dremel wheel as a final polish. I wonder if this would do an even better job? I'm still not sure why I have very shallow, wide bowls as well as narrow, deep bowls with a smaller radius curve. Here's a picture of some bowls that show the difference better.
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 10, 2014 12:01:35 GMT -5
I would guess the bowls would work for spheres. Some of the old HP flat laps used a single cup for spheres. The gizmo with the nuts and flanges is a shaft adapter. Mount it on a smooth shaft to attach a wheel. Fabuluster and Zam are both popular on soft flannel buffs for softer stones.
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 10, 2014 12:28:20 GMT -5
I don't agree that wooden disks, spools, or items like yours are intended for soft stones only. While they can be used for that purpose they're also effective when used with diamond compound for harder materials like agate and jasper. I polished my first star sapphire, hardness Mohs 9, using a hard maple lap and diamond paste. I've polished hundreds of opals with my Genie, doing all grinding and sanding operations with Galaxy and Nova wheels plus a final oxide polish on my dedicated polishing machine. The best use I've found for the Graves-type wooden spools was for polishing Idaho star garnets which have a tendency to spall with other sanding methods. I'm sure they're also great for wide range of other materials too including opal. Take note of Dan Lopacki's polishing tips with wood here: www.lopacki.com/tips/
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Oct 10, 2014 12:49:48 GMT -5
I don't agree that wooden disks, spools, or items like yours are intended for soft stones only. While they can be used for that purpose they're also effective when used with diamond compound for harder materials like agate and jasper. I polished my first star sapphire, hardness Mohs 9, using a hard maple lap and diamond paste. I've polished hundreds of opals with my Genie, doing all grinding and sanding operations with Galaxy and Nova wheels plus a final oxide polish on my dedicated polishing machine. The best use I've found for the Graves-type wooden spools was for polishing Idaho star garnets which have a tendency to spall with other sanding methods. I'm sure they're also great for wide range of other materials too including opal. Take note of Dan Lopacki's polishing tips with wood here: www.lopacki.com/tips/ I was thinking back to an old post from Starguy about polishing star garnets on a wooden spool. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/64393/star-garnet-cabs?page=1Chuck
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Post by Starguy on Oct 10, 2014 13:38:57 GMT -5
johnjsgems, gemfeller, @drummond Island Rocks, I agree that the bowls were probably made to polish spheres. They also make much smaller cups, (usually copper) for getting a perfect dome on star cabs. You can definitely polish hard stones on wood laps. I have polished quite a bit of corundum and Linde star material on wood. Wood works great for sanding and polishing. The structure of the wood holds diamond grit for a long time allowing you to work a lot of stones on it without recharging the diamond abrasive very often. When my hard maple spool polisher starts getting plugged up with rock cuttings, I just use some old fashioned lighter fluid on a paper towel to clean it. Then add some diamond extender fluid and start polishing again. Wood laps are about the best for heat sensitive stones like opal and garnet. They barely generate any heat at all. The downside to wood laps is that it can be a pain to decontaminate them if you accidentally get some coarser grit stuck in the wood. About all you can do is to use some hard agate or jasper and push it against the surface to force the coarse grit deeper into the wood. I also like my Blake's compact gem polisher because it's small, light and quiet. I can set it up in front of the TV and polish while my wife and I watch a movie. Jugglerguy. You made a fine score. I don't think wood laps are made commercially anymore. Thanks for for alerting me to this thread Chuck. Later Brent
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 10, 2014 14:53:40 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the early and famous German agate cutters used wood laps and spools for polishing their agates. I've heard the Fabuluster is really good as an after polish polish a little more compound. Looks less messy than zam.
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Post by wireholic on Oct 10, 2014 15:33:15 GMT -5
Picture 2 - not sure about the things in the bag but the red brick at the bottom is Jewelers Red Rouge. The stuff lasts forever & will shine any kind of metal.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 10, 2014 16:14:22 GMT -5
Ok, I just looked the cups or bowls over more carefully. I keep going back and forth on the sphere making idea. Here's a picture of the box they came in. Does this say "chan cups"? [/url] Here are all the cups. The three in the middle and the one stuck in the base are almost the same size. The one on the far right is much shallower. Here are the backs. The far left cup also says 14,000 grit. I'm assuming Cup C is stuck. Look at the three similarly sized cups. They get progressively smaller, but the letters are backwards. The grits are out of order. If they were for polishing spheres, the spheres would be getting smaller with progressively finer grit, but at such fine grits, is there a noticeable change in sphere size? Why is one cup threaded and the other is not? If these were for spheres, how would they work? Shouldn't there be a matching cup? E: 8000 grit, 3 7/16 diameter, 1 1/8 deep D: 8000 1200 grit, 3 3/8 diameter, 1 1/4 deep C: ? ? ? 3 5/16 <---my guess B: 14,000 grit, 3 1/4 diameter, 1 3/8 deep Edit: There was also a box with reference to this guy repairing hand bells. I don't think these were for that purpose, but I thought I'd mention it.
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