quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Oct 28, 2014 17:45:07 GMT -5
Back in Jan. nowyo showed his propane cyl. tumbler. Shortly after that I had an opportunity to get both a helium cyl. [the take home size] and a propane cyl. for cheap, had to try it. I cut the ends open and welded a 2" long piece of 4" pipe on so as to use a rubber pipe cap. I built a simple frame that would drive either cyl. with only a minor change. Used a 1/6 H.P. motor. Someone mentioned John Sinkankas said 100 S.F.P.M. was a good roughing speed, used that as a baseline. The helium barrel loaded weighed 57 lb. average. I started it at 44 R.P.M. [108 S.F.P.M.] with green garden hose on the rollers. The hose lasted ~3 wks., and I found notching it for the weld bead in the center of the cyl. only accelerated wear. After a couple hoses, I went to Gates green stripe radiator hose, lasted very well. Also started it on bronze bushing pillow blocks given to me, they lasted 72 run days and required daily oiling, replaced w/ball bearing pillow blocks. I had it tipped just enough to always run against a suction cup in a bearing on one end, but between day 86 & 87, it switched ends, got up against the set collars used to hold the rods in the bushing blocks, and to control hose creep, and sawed a fatal notch in the upper end of the barrel. Used 16 grit up in 5-6 days. When I had enough sorted, I ran an 80 grit run. Then I went to the propane cyl. started at 32 R.P.M. [99 S.F.P.M.] and ate 16 grit completely at 4-5 days, but broke and chipped too much. Slowed it to 27 [83 surface feet], and still had too much breakage. Ate the 16 grit at 5-6 days. This thing is heavy, ran it full to 4" from the end of the pipe, weighed ave. 107 lbs. Built a lifting frame w/garage sale stuff so as to be able to dump it into a bucket, handtrucked the bucket to my washing table for the clean and sort. When enough was sorted, I made an 80 grit run of 6-7 days. It's wet out now and my dump area will turn to mud, so in the spring, I'll slow it down more and try it again. Meanwhile, back to the double 5 gallon barrel set. All in all, a fun project, learned some things. A couple downsides: noise, measured generally 72 to 80 db at ten ft. distance. I had one load in the propane barrel wear and get loose real fast, db hit 90. I ran it in an insulated shed that makes the noise level tolerable. 60 db is considered normal conversation. The other disadvantage is I couldn't tumble rocks too big to fit thru thru the pipe. Big advantage: Using the rubber plug on the pipe is vastly easier than all the studs on my plastic barrels. If I had the cylinders readily available, I think I would run the helium cylinders, much easier to handle. For anyone interested, Freon cylinders are the same as the small helium ones, and my local auto parts sells about 20 per year. Auto air conditioning and HVAC outfits use them.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 28, 2014 18:13:50 GMT -5
Very well done. Like the mechanical workmanship. The red barrel looks like it may have had a dent close to the weld failure ?? Tumbling heavy is sure brutal on the barrels. Looked and learned a lot from your project.
The rollers on your PVC tumbler look vulcanized, man that is some serious rubber covering. Don't think you can build them tough enough, great machine for the guy that over does things.
I have wondered about hard barrels vs softer barrels. At the Woodward Ranch was a tumbler barrel made out of 12inch steel pipe. Had a chain drive. Like sch 20 1/4" wall on the pipe. Mrs. Woodward said it tumbled many a stone.
The jack is great idea. It looks handy for the heavy barrel.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Oct 28, 2014 19:18:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment. The rollers on the P.V.C. barrel frame were obtained from a paper cutting-printing business that closed their Salem, OR plant. They moved everything of value and had a "garage sale" w/remainder. We got a bunch of usable stuff super cheap there. The rollers are big, increase the rolling speed some, but will last forever. It wasn't a weld failure that killed the red barrel, the thing switched ends one night and sawed a notch in the barrel on the shaft set collars. Had the collars on to locate the rods when I tried out the bronze bushing blocks, left them on to control hose creep. When I went to the propane barrel, put a roller on the other end too.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 28, 2014 20:26:38 GMT -5
Yes. Hole rubbed. One of my tumblers has barrel that walks up hill. hmmm
Printer equipment has wicked rubber covered rollers. Brilliant re use.
What kind of squash in the background?
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Oct 28, 2014 22:35:11 GMT -5
Small box red potatoes, next one back zucchini, had a good crop this year. Carol has planted and potted flowers everywhere. Use of the large dia. rollers were largely cause of having to build a jackshaft [countershaft] into the frame in order to get speed down. Economy purchase, durability, and perfect length were justification for use.
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Post by nowyo on Oct 28, 2014 23:17:31 GMT -5
Back in Jan. nowyo showed his propane cyl. tumbler. Shortly after that I had an opportunity to get both a helium cyl. [the take home size] and a propane cyl. for cheap, had to try it. I cut the ends open and welded a 2" long piece of 4" pipe on so as to use a rubber pipe cap. I built a simple frame that would drive either cyl. with only a minor change. Used a 1/6 H.P. motor. Someone mentioned John Sinkankas said 100 S.F.P.M. was a good roughing speed, used that as a baseline. The helium barrel loaded weighed 57 lb. average. I started it at 44 R.P.M. [108 S.F.P.M.] with green garden hose on the rollers. The hose lasted ~3 wks., and I found notching it for the weld bead in the center of the cyl. only accelerated wear. After a couple hoses, I went to Gates green stripe radiator hose, lasted very well. Also started it on bronze bushing pillow blocks given to me, they lasted 72 run days and required daily oiling, replaced w/ball bearing pillow blocks. I had it tipped just enough to always run against a suction cup in a bearing on one end, but between day 86 & 87, it switched ends, got up against the set collars used to hold the rods in the bushing blocks, and to control hose creep, and sawed a fatal notch in the upper end of the barrel. Used 16 grit up in 5-6 days. When I had enough sorted, I ran an 80 grit run. Then I went to the propane cyl. started at 32 R.P.M. [99 S.F.P.M.] and ate 16 grit completely at 4-5 days, but broke and chipped too much. Slowed it to 27 [83 surface feet], and still had too much breakage. Ate the 16 grit at 5-6 days. This thing is heavy, ran it full to 4" from the end of the pipe, weighed ave. 107 lbs. Built a lifting frame w/garage sale stuff so as to be able to dump it into a bucket, handtrucked the bucket to my washing table for the clean and sort. When enough was sorted, I made an 80 grit run of 6-7 days. It's wet out now and my dump area will turn to mud, so in the spring, I'll slow it down more and try it again. Meanwhile, back to the double 5 gallon barrel set. All in all, a fun project, learned some things. A couple downsides: noise, measured generally 72 to 80 db at ten ft. distance. I had one load in the propane barrel wear and get loose real fast, db hit 90. I ran it in an insulated shed that makes the noise level tolerable. 60 db is considered normal conversation. The other disadvantage is I couldn't tumble rocks too big to fit thru thru the pipe. Big advantage: Using the rubber plug on the pipe is vastly easier than all the studs on my plastic barrels. If I had the cylinders readily available, I think I would run the helium cylinders, much easier to handle. For anyone interested, Freon cylinders are the same as the small helium ones, and my local auto parts sells about 20 per year. Auto air conditioning and HVAC outfits use them. While it's pretty scary that anyone would want to copy something I've done I have to say you did a great job with that. Love the lift for emptying. I'm dumb enough that I just pick it up and dump it out. Those Helium tanks look like they'd be a great size. It's loud. I'm apt to be wearing ear protection in the shop anyways (power tools and whatnot) so I don't worry about it much. Probably wouldn't work well in an attached garage. Splitting the hoses for the center weld seemed like a good idea at the time but turned out to be a wasted effort. I've been running clear plastic hose on the shafts simply because I had a bunch of it hanging around. I like the radiator hose idea. I've been playing with speeds, it's currently running 42 rpm, started at about 30. Too fast, I'll drop it down to the mid 20's probably, next time around. It does fracture rocks. I'll usually load it up dry and let it run a day or two just to break things up, then load up with water and grit. All I have run in it is self collected stuff, and an awful lot of what we find is fractured. I only use it for the initial rough grinding, once things have gotten rounded/smoothed pretty good they go to the Thumler B for a little ride just to really get them ready to move on without smashing them any more. Your grit usage times pretty much mirrors mine, although it usually ends up running until I have time to unload it. Gotta love those handtrucks! I use mine to move the darn thing all the time. Lifting and dumping are one thing, but I ain't carrying that very far if I can help it. Really like your double 5 gallon set up. Sweet! On another thread a while back the idea came up about venting the barrel. I've tried poking a hole with an ice pick and this is what happens until the slurry plugs the hole. Makes a mess, hey it was worth a try. Very cool post, thanks for sharing. Russ
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Oct 29, 2014 22:16:17 GMT -5
Russ, Thanks for your original post. I couldn't pass the project up when I found those cylinders; $2 for both. Always trying for quicker/better. The helium cyl. was much easier to handle, and worked quite well for roughing. If I come up with a steady supply, probably use them for roughing. I think they will last about six months, weighed the cyl. before and after, it lost a little under half its weight in 86 days of running. The Gates green stripe radiator hose has held up very well. Larry
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 30, 2014 3:39:25 GMT -5
The rubber Fernco caps do well. Some brands are thinner and have had them wear thin in coarse barrel after a year. Another thicker brand may last forever. The thinner brand will expand a long way, or better will show signs of gas build up early. Prefer the early warning. Have used the 6 inch caps too. Easier to get the rocks out w/it.
the weight loss is a lot, wow.
cool builds
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 30, 2014 13:42:47 GMT -5
Great builds.......Gotta love engineering.............
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Oct 30, 2014 22:47:57 GMT -5
Like that Fernco cap a bunch, easy to work with and a great gas indicator. Larger than 4" aren't available around here, have to order in.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 31, 2014 4:01:38 GMT -5
Like that Fernco cap a bunch, easy to work with and a great gas indicator. Larger than 4" aren't available around here, have to order in. One brand is real thick hard vinyl like material. The other is thin inner tube type rubber. This one for gaseous stuff. And double band clamps when gaseous. One time a soft one was double clamped and bowing 1.5 inches. I put my hand over it to keep it flying away when loosening. My wrist was sore for a few days. Taught me. No doubt, the easy access makes quick checks and alterations a lot more inviting.
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