jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2015 15:18:48 GMT -5
Well, diatomaceous earth (DM) is cheap. If I am going to clean the SiC 220 off with soap in a burnish step, I might as well put a dose of ~500 grit DM in there with it. Knock a layer off at the same time. May even play out to a quick polish using the soft abrasive.
Will still clean the rocks(obsidian) thoroughly before adding the Borax and DM. Considering skipping the Borax.
Note-SiC 220 run 3 days in vibe, zero sheen, very light occasional sparkle only where old bruises were on the edges.
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Post by Pat on Jan 13, 2015 20:36:13 GMT -5
Sounds reasonable! Let us know the results, and what you decided to do.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2015 21:35:21 GMT -5
Sounds reasonable! Let us know the results, and what you decided to do. Remember mentioning that you would keep good notes if you tumbled rocks ? I put notes down in this category. It may be strange behavior, not sure about the etiquette. Figured it may be thought stimulating. Tonight I figured out the difference between aluminum oxide 500 and aluminum oxide 1000 by grinding it lightly between your teeth I think I need to get more rest Pat..
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 13, 2015 21:42:14 GMT -5
Can't wait....
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2015 21:43:00 GMT -5
Not to put soap and grit together, it allows the grit to run to the bottom of the hopper.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 13, 2015 21:44:24 GMT -5
Be prepared to wait Michael, my experiments fail 9 out of 10 LOL
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Post by captbob on Jan 13, 2015 23:34:35 GMT -5
Not to put soap and grit together, it allows the grit to run to the bottom of the hopper. From the Instructions for vibe tumblers.... thread (page 5) There was a question about using soap powder here,,,, I use it in all stages and about 15 minutes to an hour before I'm ready to wash the load I add about 1/2-1 teaspoon more with some very hot water. I mix the soap and water before adding it so it's all emulsified,,,,if that's how ya spell it?? Something I think is interesting is that for about a year now I've been "playing" with soap and Tripoli in my 1000 grit pre-polish. I use about 1/2-1 teaspoon of powdered soap when I start the load.After about 24-36 hours I add more soap and Tripoli.Notice that I said "add". I don't wash the rocks but rather just add Tripoli and soap. After about another 24 hours I look at a "test" rock,,(just any rock I can grab as they roll around the barrel). I wash it off and dry it and I CAN NOT believe the results! I told Jack about this some time ago and he has also tried it with great results. Here's some Brazilian Agate that hasn't even see any polish,,,,,,, Not bad,Ha? So,,,,,,,,I've become a soap lover,,,,,powdered soap not the ones on TV! LOL connrock
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 14, 2015 0:12:44 GMT -5
Tripoli will polish many rocks and is frequently used in pre polish step. Some people add a little soap to every step in a vibe. One of the three magic ingredients in the now not available GyRoc polish was powdered Tide laundry detergent.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 5:26:23 GMT -5
captbob-I added too much water, it was not the soap. All it takes is a little too much water and washes the grit to the bottom of the hopper. Still new to this vibe. I was curious about adding to grit to the vibe without cleaning out. connrock sure did, soap too. Great info right there. I abandoned the diatomaceous earth. It felt it is too fine to remove the AO 220 finish. I hand lapped it and it took forever. So I am running that Lortone pre-polish first, it is a mix of AO 325 to AO 700, median grain size 500. hand lapped ?? Here is what I mean, PITA bruises from #$@%^ rotary after short AO 220 run. So I sat and hand lapped area in center for a long time with diatomaceous earth sprinkled on a wet wash cloth. Never removed them. So I opted for the Lortone pre-polish It took 5 runs of SiC 220 in the vibe to remove those @#$% bruises from the #$%^& rotary(no photo). Remember, I did not use filler... So the photo below was before the 5 runs of SiC 220, but after a short run in the rotary w/AO 220. Never did try the DE on the Obsidian after the 5 runs in SiC 220, the DE may have worked on them, they were quite smooth, but taking no chances
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Post by snowmom on Jan 14, 2015 5:36:08 GMT -5
the mind of a scientist you have, JamesP. I love that you post the experiments and conclusions so we can share the learning. thanks for another great thread!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 5:50:09 GMT -5
Tripoli will polish many rocks and is frequently used in pre polish step. Some people add a little soap to every step in a vibe. One of the three magic ingredients in the now not available GyRoc polish was powdered Tide laundry detergent. This Viking vibe has to be balanced real well to avoid solid filler vibrating to one side and rocks vibrating to other. Owners have told me they use soap, sugar for cushioning/lubrication since it cannot shift like solid media. Donut shaped hoppers are less likely to do this since they seem to mix well. Curious to know what fillers they put in laundry detergent John. Ingredients are not easy to find info on.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 5:55:32 GMT -5
the mind of a scientist you have, JamesP. I love that you post the experiments and conclusions so we can share the learning. thanks for another great thread! Looking for better ways snowmom, not easy, many years of trials have got this tumbling well figured out.
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Post by snowmom on Jan 14, 2015 6:00:04 GMT -5
watching with interest so much to learn!
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Post by captbob on Jan 14, 2015 8:59:00 GMT -5
If I may make a suggestion regarding your obsidian...
Take each and every piece of obsidian you have on your property and throw it all into the deepest part of your pond.
That is all
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 9:42:07 GMT -5
If I may make a suggestion regarding your obsidian... Take each and every piece of obsidian you have on your property and throw it all into the deepest part of your pond. That is all They will all be tumbled to molecules soon. Great advise
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 14, 2015 11:19:24 GMT -5
jamesp, what is 500 grit DM? diamond?
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 14, 2015 11:46:48 GMT -5
If they told you what was in detergents you would probably make your own for less. Try the Diatomaceous earth as a final polish after the 500 AO or SC. It is sold as a polish by somebody. I had people try it in a rotary with mixed results. Never tried it in a vibe. I tried tumbling some soft materials for a guy. My Tide burnish wiped out the polish I had.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 13:07:08 GMT -5
jamesp, what is 500 grit DM? diamond? Diatomaceous earth Jan. I believe they are ancient/fosillized form. Present day diatoms still in the ocean, probably the most numerous life form on earth. They create micro opaline silica shells/encapsules to live in. Same thing used in tripoli polish. You probably knew all that, dM is just an abbreviation.
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 14, 2015 13:24:41 GMT -5
Thanks, jamesp! Is it food-grade? I think some folks use the food-grade Diatomaceous earth to kill ticks and fleas in their yard?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 13:35:54 GMT -5
If they told you what was in detergents you would probably make your own for less. Try the Diatomaceous earth as a final polish after the 500 AO or SC. It is sold as a polish by somebody. I had people try it in a rotary with mixed results. Never tried it in a vibe. I tried tumbling some soft materials for a guy. My Tide burnish wiped out the polish I had. So true, amazing what kind of junk filler they throw in products to give them bulk, and the active ingredients are like 1%. They are making money. Diatoms are less than 1 micron to 200 microns in size. big range The AG guys grind and screen them to their sizes, and the filter guys do the same. No telling what the tripoli guys do. The ag guys get it to a size that caterpillars can eat it when sprinkled on plants and the sharp particles rips their guts out. The filter guys get it to a size so that it will catch down to 1-2 micron bacteria in a filter. If you have ever seen an aquarium with a diatom filter it will blow your mind, probably the clearest water on earth. So I have had a hard time figuring out what the microns are. Sure seems to be polish size as you mentioned. And it breaks down real fast in the vibe. The ag stuff is definitely finer, it is usually brown, and probably run thru a 320 lime screen, so 500 grit. And is crystalline quartz free. The filter stuff is almost always white, is coarser, and is allowed to have crystalline quartz because it poses no threat in a filter. Virgin diatoms(diatomite) seems hard to find and has not been screen sized. Probably impure. So there is a lot of trade secrets with DE. I am nervous burnishing with dry detergents, no telling what they put in it. Lots of detergents and cosmetics has kaolin and diatoms and other stuff. Kaolin is eat up with aluminum oxide. What you said about Tide is not a surprise.
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