jamesp
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Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 13:43:34 GMT -5
Thanks, jamesp! Is it food-grade? I think some folks use the food-grade Diatomaceous earth to kill ticks and fleas in their yard? Oops, not DM, I meant DE-diatomacious earth= DE - duh. Tick, fleas, caterpillars and not earth worms will have their guts cut to shreds if they eat plants coated in DE. One of my water lily competitors puts vegetable oil in his lily ponds, it floats, then he sprinkles DE on it to keep it at the surface. The China Mark moth larvae eats it and it craps out it's guts and dies- cool eh ? He also got sued by the downstream neighbors for this practice, a vegetable oil creek.
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 14, 2015 15:14:55 GMT -5
okay, Thanks, jamesp. Sorry to hear about your neighbor. A bit off topic, but what is gross is seeing the garbage and other 'stuff' (sewage) coming into West Point Lake from the Chattahoochee.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 17:20:14 GMT -5
okay, Thanks, jamesp. Sorry to hear about your neighbor. A bit off topic, but what is gross is seeing the garbage and other 'stuff' (sewage) coming into West Point Lake from the Chattahoochee. One of the Chattahoochee boat ramps is 6 miles form the house, I fish there a lot. catch and release, they are not edible but large fish since no one fishes there. Several 10 pound bass and big shoal bass. after a rain that raises the river a foot or two, 5-10 pound catfish about every cast.the only problem is the scenery. I feel for you guys down there. It is bad when you can fill the boat with balls of all sports at every fallen tree. It is mostly silt pollution now, and phosphates/ammoniates(as you said, sewage), but that is better till it floods. the floating balls are great bass holes
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 14, 2015 17:29:12 GMT -5
It's a darn shame that you have to throw the fish back in. To be honest, we haven't ever caught any fish unless we're beneath the West Point dam when the water is low. Have seen folks out there gathering the fresh water mussels near the shore. Sometimes there collecting inteferes with your fishing spot. lol.
Back to the earth-stuff, I'm watching with other members with great interest. Please keep 'em comin'!
I didn't have much luck using borax while tumbling, but then again, I was probably doing something wrong. Borax can clean the heck out of a tub. lol.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Jan 14, 2015 18:06:40 GMT -5
It's a darn shame that you have to throw the fish back in. To be honest, we haven't ever caught any fish unless we're beneath the West Point dam when the water is low. Have seen folks out there gathering the fresh water mussels near the shore. Sometimes there collecting inteferes with your fishing spot. lol. Back to the earth-stuff, I'm watching with other members with great interest. Please keep 'em comin'! I didn't have much luck using borax while tumbling, but then again, I was probably doing something wrong. Borax can clean the heck out of a tub. lol. I used to stock pile salt water fish. Miss them, need to get back and start that habit again. Did you say polluted water mussels? , that is a scary critter to eat being that it is a water filter animal. Do you guys go to that dam when the hybrids are running, those are screamers, too fun to catch. Yes, have heard stories about burnishing with dry detergents, some use Palmolive. The fluorite caught every bit of white polish due to fractures and mostly laminated cleavage plains, it had to be burnished, I used Palmolive.
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 14, 2015 22:49:20 GMT -5
I use a uv-18 vibe and wonder if tripoli added to the 500 AO prepolish before the final AO polish would be beneficial? I work agate cabs and use Biker Randy"s polish cycle.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 5:00:46 GMT -5
I use a uv-18 vibe and wonder if tripoli added to the 500 AO prepolish before the final AO polish would be beneficial? I work agate cabs and use Biker Randy"s polish cycle. Hard to beat AO on polishing agate in a vibe(or rotary) Victor. It is a good hard abrasive that does real well with finishing agate. Would not change that one. Randy's formula very thorough and fail safe.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 5:36:10 GMT -5
Brought in some Mohs 7.5 abrasive, 14 micron and 36 micron. Harder than DE, and hard to find. An industrial abrasive that has some confusion, says 320 and 500 grit, 320 tumbling grit is 45 microns and 500 is 35 microns. Abrasive sizing a bit complicated, need 35 micron, so one or the other should be such. They swear it to be micron correct, safest way. No confusion with microns. Grits/meshes/grades are not straight measurements of particle size. Often confusing.
So 14 micron should be 1000 grit, and 36 micron should be 500 grit, that would be perfect. Texture seems to agree.
The Lortone AO pre-polish is working well after the first day in the slowed down vibe on obsidian. Already a slight sheen at a sharp glare angle. It may be a sharper AO that breaks down easy. Lortone imports it from Germany. It is a pure white AO. Many forms of AO. It is also a bit costly, but the vibe uses so little. May pay back in energy savings if it breaks down quicker.
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Post by captbob on Jan 15, 2015 9:02:02 GMT -5
I use a uv-18 vibe and wonder if tripoli added to the 500 AO prepolish before the final AO polish would be beneficial? I work agate cabs and use Biker Randy"s polish cycle. I sure don't see how it could hurt. Tripoli is like 800-1000 and I consider that a pre-polish. Connrock was adding it to his 1000 (quoted area page 1 here) along with a bit of soap. I just got a bag in from Shawn @ Rock Shed, and I'm going to use it in the latter part of my 500 cycle and at the start of my 1000 run on the obsidian I have been working on since the end of September. I would use it if you have it. The Lortone AO pre-polish is working well after the first day in the slowed down vibe on obsidian. Already a slight sheen at a sharp glare angle. It may be a sharper AO that breaks down easy. Lortone imports it from Germany. It is a pure white AO. Many forms of AO. It is also a bit costly, but the vibe uses so little. May pay back in energy savings if it breaks down quicker. To be clear for all here, you are using the Lortone pre-polish that you special ordered (imported from Germany) which is finer than 1000 - more like the 2000 to 5000 range. This is NOT the Lortone "pre-polish" which is sold most everywhere, (including The Rock Shed) which is a mixture of AO from the 300 to 500+ range. I do NOT consider any product with 300ish grit (AO) in it a "pre-polish" in any way, shape or form. And, consider calling it "pre-polish" misleading at the least.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 9:49:01 GMT -5
Captbob- It is the Prepolish sold in the white plastic one pound jars at Lortone. Not the 5000 range polish. You and I know that if Lortone is going to sell pre-polish it is correct for us tumbling folks. So I asked their tech man Doug and he said that their pre-polish is a mix from 44 microns to about 25 microns. That would be 325 to about 800 grit. But most of the grit is 500, so it is a mix, and perfectly suitable for pre-polish. If it was perfectly graded 500 it would be a whole bunch more expensive. And overkill for tumbling since the tumbler breaks it down anyway. It just allows them to by a cheaper product that gets the job done. Here is a typical abrasive chart : Looks like the high spot is 3 microns @10%, 7 microns @ 4%, .5 microns @ 2%, so this may be marketed as a 3 micron abrasive. A cheap 3 micron abrasive. but probably similar to any AO you get from a tumbling supplier.
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Post by captbob on Jan 15, 2015 10:09:59 GMT -5
You and I know that if Lortone is going to sell pre-polish it is correct for us tumbling folks. WE do? The cynic in me wonders if they would sell cat litter as a pre-polish if they could get us to buy into it. So I asked their tech man Doug and he said that their pre-polish is a mix from 44 microns to about 25 microns. That would be 325 to about 800 grit. But most of the grit is 500, so it is a mix, and perfectly suitable for pre-polish. Sorry, but I am never going to consider anything with 325 grit in it a "pre-polish". I don't care if it breaks down. 60 grit breaks down given time... is it a pre-polish too? edit fer spellin'
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 15, 2015 10:56:18 GMT -5
Lortone confuses many calling the fine grit step "pre polish". To me pre polish comes after the 500 (or 600) step. Tripoli, 1000-1200 AO, etc. The 500 or 500F or 5F SC grits used to be called 600 ungraded and was a mixture averaging around 500. Doesn't matter much to tumblers as it all breaks down anyway. My supplier only carries graded grit so it is less confusing to say it is 220 or 600 and not have to explain mixed grade grits. Costs only a few cents more.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 15, 2015 11:22:07 GMT -5
I prefer to use straight graded grits after the rough grind. Think I'm getting a uniform finish that way. Possibly more predictable and repeatable. Can't prove that but has always worked well.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 11:28:36 GMT -5
You and I know that if Lortone is going to sell pre-polish it is correct for us tumbling folks. WE do? The cynic in me wonders if they would sell cat litter as a pre-polish if they could get us to buy into it. So I asked their tech man Doug and he said that their pre-polish is a mix from 44 microns to about 25 microns. That would be 325 to about 800 grit. But most of the grit is 500, so it is a mix, and perfectly suitable for pre-polish. Sorry, but I am never going to consider anything with 325 grit in it a "pre-polish". I don't care if it breaks down. 60 grit breaks down given time... is it a pre-polish too? edit fer spellin'I get your drift, I had a big complaint about that mix of sizes. And expressed it in past posts. I called Lortone and asked-"what size grit is your AO pre-polish ?" "It has no numerical size in your ad or on your container". Doug was honest, and gave me my first lecture about mixed particles in many aluminum oxide abrasives. And that his is a mix based on a bell curve, and assured me it would work just fine as pre-polish. The more research I did, the more I found it to be common practice to sell abrasive in a range, especially AO for some reason. So I found out why. And the reason is SiC can and is crushed to size. AO is usually manufactured to size, and crushing it to size is not so common. Also, it is not so much of an issue with SiC, most tumbler folks only go as fine as SiC 500. AO is the one most often used for pre-polish and polish. Sorry for the long story but that's how I found all this out. All of the above got started for another reason all together. The lady at Lortone said their pre-polish was AO 5000. So I ordered it, and mentioned it to you, and you ordered it. When it arrived I pinched a bit and rolled it between my fingers and felt grit, which would never happen with 5000. At that point I called Lortone and asked for the management, that's when Doug set the matter straight. So I got that 2000-9000 range of 'AO 5000'. I had a load of obsidian that had been running in AO 1000 for a week. Running long enough that it had broken down and put a light shine on the obsidian. So I did a clean out and used the 2000-9000 'AO 5000' and it had completely removed my light shine by the next day. But 3 days later it was coming back, the 2000 particles probably ground off my light shine. So I was aggravated that I lost the 1 week. Found some graded pure AO 5000 for $40 per pound. No way, skip that. It was about that time that the vibe came along and I no longer cared about mixed sizes because the vibe grinds grit up like pit bull. AO 300-800 range is broken down to 1000 in a day or two in a vibe. So it was all the sudden a non-issue. Lot of people may be surprised what is marketed as AO 500 and AO 1000, I believe that practice is allowed nomenclature. Might want to prove it w/a scope or question the supplier-is your abrasive a range ? He may figure that you used a microscope and will cause trouble for him, so he will be honest.
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 15, 2015 11:34:33 GMT -5
...The cynic in me wonders if they would sell cat litter as a pre-polish if they could get us to buy into it. Please don't give jamesp any ideas to experiment with the kitty rocks, captbob. The tumbling polishing kit that came with the Raytech vibe had me a bit confused since there's a "pre-polish" of Iolox 50 and "polish" of Raybrite TL. Haven't a clue what grits they are.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 11:52:16 GMT -5
...The cynic in me wonders if they would sell cat litter as a pre-polish if they could get us to buy into it. Please don't give jamesp any ideas to experiment with the kitty rocks, captbob. The tumbling polishing kit that came with the Raytech vibe had me a bit confused since there's a "pre-polish" of Iolox 50 and "polish" of Raybrite TL. Haven't a clue what grits they are. I did scoop some tadpoles up for tumbler water from my plant bins, maybe a good lubricant Gotta watch the abrasive folks, if it has a name it is probably a mix. Lolox 50, hmmm, what could that be. Sounds sexy. Better if they put a numerical size. Kitty litter is mined just north of captbob's neighborhood. It is the layer of clay sitting on Ocala limestone, then fired. Full of shark's teeth, other fossils.
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Post by connrock on Jan 15, 2015 12:39:05 GMT -5
When I had tumbling fever I did a LOT of trial and mostly error experiments trying to get not only the "perfect shine" on my rocks but also a way to speed things up. The rough stage is the killer cuz it take so long so that's where I needed to get things going faster.
After roughing with #30 SC grit in a Model B I found that MUCH less water was needed or the grit just washed around and did next to nothing to agate and or jasper.I did a bit of thinking and thought that maybe a faster tumbler might work better to cause a bit more centrifugal motion which would keep the rocks/grit together better.I bought a Model B designed for tumbling ammo,,,cut back on the normal amount of water and again tried the #30 SC grit. The speed increase did help but the slurry got thick fast and I had to keep opening the barrel and adding water about every 2-3 days.VERY messy and time consuming.I started adding about a teaspoon of powdered laundry soap (Dreft) just to help with clean-up a little and found that the soap may have helped with the grinding a little too.
All in all I didn't find that starting with 30 grit helped speed up the roughing stage,,,,it just added another step to the whole process.So I went back to using 60/90 SC grit.
It wasn't until years later that I bought my 1st Lot-O,,,,again to speed things up a tad and it changed my tumbling life! LOL I had 11 or 12 rotaries going in different stages all the time and all I needed was a vibe! LOL
The Lot-O and I had a VERY tough time getting used to each other and my first load was a TOTAL disaster!I used WAY too much water and grit and got pretty frustrated and disgusted with the whole thing! I cut WAY back on the water and grit and thought I had the bull by the horns,,,,WRONG!I had left it unattended for over 24 hours and found "would be" cement when I finally checked it! Thinking to myself of what I would do to a real batch of cement to thin it down and clean up the mess,,,,,I put powdered Dreft in a glass of VERY hot water and threw it in the Lot-O.
This is when soap,hot water and Tom became friends! LOL
As time went on and I learned how to use the Lot-O I never forgot my old friend Mr Dreft and I still swear by "him"! I've tried chipped bar Ivory,liquid dish soap,borax and a few other soaps but always come back to Dreft. When Ivory made Ivory Flakes it was the "in thing" with the old time tumblers,,then came the chipper bar Ivory but my wife had Dreft so that's what I used "stole" from her! LOL
The thing I've found with adding dry Dreft is that when I sprinkle it onto the rotating wet rocks,the rocks dry out pretty fast so I add the Dreft,,,squirt water,,,,add Dreft,,,squirt water,etc,etc until I get the rocks rotating nicely and I cans see a "film" of soap between the rotating rocks that almost creates bubbles.Like blowing a bubble with soapy hands,,,that kind of bubbles and not foamy bubbles. After I have the soap/water "mix" I add the grit or polish.May have to squirt a tad more water but in the polish stage water becomes a critical thing cuz too much or not enough can cause problems. In my experience adding soap to a 1000 load,,,letting that run for a couple days and then adding Tripoli and (maybe) more soap,,,letting that run for a couple days,,,does get quite a nice shine on the rocks. And don't forget,,,I'm talking about adding ONLY 1/2 teaspoon of 1000 grit and Tripoli for a 3.5 - 4 pound load of rocks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 14:12:11 GMT -5
I find 30 grit particles in the ends of my barrel sometimes. I use 30/60. Have to run it pretty low on water to get it to stick to the rocks. Kind of a catch 22, the low water makes the rocks hit. It's OK for agate, but not rose quartz. And that problem is worse on the 8 inch barrels than the 6 inch barrels. Not sure why. connrock- I was curious how you add the Dreft. Dry or dissolved. Do you sprinkle the polish in slowly too ?
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Post by captbob on Jan 15, 2015 14:15:08 GMT -5
So I got that 2000-9000 range of 'AO 5000'. I had a load of obsidian that had been running in AO 1000 for a week. Running long enough that it had broken down and put a light shine on the obsidian. So I did a clean out and used the 2000-9000 'AO 5000' and it had completely removed my light shine by the next day. But 3 days later it was coming back, the 2000 particles probably ground off my light shine. That's interesting information. thanks
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 15, 2015 14:43:28 GMT -5
So I got that 2000-9000 range of 'AO 5000'. I had a load of obsidian that had been running in AO 1000 for a week. Running long enough that it had broken down and put a light shine on the obsidian. So I did a clean out and used the 2000-9000 'AO 5000' and it had completely removed my light shine by the next day. But 3 days later it was coming back, the 2000 particles probably ground off my light shine. That's interesting information. thanks I had a load of obsidian in the rotary for about a week in AO 220. Looked like it broke down and had a nice smooth finish. I put the Lortone pre-polish in there and it seemed to roughen that finish too for a few days. I was trying to take a lot of grit steps in the rotary back then. Another reason for finding out the exact size of the grit. I talked to another supplier about this issue of varying sized grits in one grade. Same story. It is what it is.
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