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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 0:48:17 GMT -5
I'm wondering what the rough value of this non precious opal is.. I might get more depending on how it turns out. Its the top right solid blue piece Thanks for the help  |
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Post by radio on Feb 15, 2015 8:46:39 GMT -5
Try wetting it and get a closeup photo of it if possible so we can better see the stone. It can make some pretty cabs, but in my experience, it doesn't have a lot of value.
The spotted Lucin Variscite on the right and the half moon agate below it are your top stones IMHO. The Agate has the look of a Volcano erupting
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 13:49:19 GMT -5
yeah, I thought so but i'm generally bad at putting values on material. I generally value cabs at $20 and pendants for $25... but those materials aren't worth more than $15/lb generally. This material I am not sure what its sold by (gram, pound). I'll edit this with a pic soon
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2015 14:33:50 GMT -5
unless there is exceptional pattern AND COMPOSITION, the price of a cab or pendant is lower than the work it takes, and there is really no difference between and average opal potch, a regular agate, a regular jasper, and/or a regular other semi-precious.
I would not be pricing a can different if the rough was within a few bucks per pound.
But unless the blue is exceptional, I can't see any common opal being $15/lb. Just like most colorful agates and jaspers are not $15/lb.
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 15:15:29 GMT -5
unless there is exceptional pattern AND COMPOSITION, the price of a cab or pendant is lower than the work it takes, and there is really no difference between and average opal potch, a regular agate, a regular jasper, and/or a regular other semi-precious. I would not be pricing a can different if the rough was within a few bucks per pound. But unless the blue is exceptional, I can't see any common opal being $15/lb. Just like most colorful agates and jaspers are not $15/lb. It depends how much you value your time input I guess. I'm talking about what the rough price of this stuff is worth. I didn't think its worth too much but I don't know. I have had my crysocholla cab valued between $25-32 by others. If people want my stuff they pay what my time and materials is worth, I am not going to drop the price to compete with Chinese sweatshop labor. The only piece of rough like this I seen that is similar is on ebay and I only seen one like it... they had a bid at around $8 for a piece a little larger than this.  |
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spiritstone
Cave Dweller 
Member since August 2014
Posts: 2,061 
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Post by spiritstone on Feb 15, 2015 16:11:17 GMT -5
unless there is exceptional pattern AND COMPOSITION, the price of a cab or pendant is lower than the work it takes, and there is really no difference between and average opal potch, a regular agate, a regular jasper, and/or a regular other semi-precious. I would not be pricing a can different if the rough was within a few bucks per pound. But unless the blue is exceptional, I can't see any common opal being $15/lb. Just like most colorful agates and jaspers are not $15/lb. Glennz he raises a good point. Not worth the work to remove it. I cant even give it away.  |
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 17:31:36 GMT -5
Glennz he raises a good point. Not worth the work to remove it. I cant even give it away. Not commercially mined I'm presuming your meaning? I'd be surprised if you really can't give the stuff away. if someone gave me agate, opal, or jasper, it would make my day  Some day when I get a house of my own I would tile the floors and walls of some places that sort of stuff |
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Post by captbob on Feb 15, 2015 17:50:19 GMT -5
It depends how much you value your work I guess. You've been cabbing maybe 2 months? Don't price yourself right out of the market. Your time may be important to you, but it doesn't mean much to a buyer. I have had my crysocholla cab valued between $25-32 by others. If people want my stuff they pay what my time and materials is worth, I am not going to drop the price to compete with Chinese sweatshop labor. Yeah? 25 to 32 bucks huh? "Others" are smoking crack. People pay depending on quality, which matters way more than your time. And, the material in that chrysocolla cab is what... 75¢ to a dollar? See this wire wrapped cab here? ![]()  I paid 40 bucks for it on the Etsy site of one of the best on the forum. He was using a fairly expensive material, it's NOT lopsided (just sayin') AND it's wire wrapped in a stunning manner. Go to some of the stores linked in the sig line of folks here (that have been doing this for years) and take a look at what 25 to 32 bucks can buy. You would be amazed at the high quality pieces in that price range. I do enjoy seeing your efforts and your work is noticeably improving, but I'm thinking you are getting way ahead of yourself. Surely, if you keep at it, you'll get there. I'm not sure why, but you seem overly concerned with "what's this worth" when you really probably don't want to know. Keep practicing your cabbing and someday your time truly may be worth something. It's just not yet. I've seen some of the fine, polite folks here compliment tumbled rocks (NOT necessarily yours) that looked like something from out of a cat litter box. Ya ever read The Emperor's New Clothes? Don't let kind comments skew reality. |
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 19:24:44 GMT -5
I paid 40 bucks for it on the Etsy site of one of the best on the forum. He was using a fairly expensive material, it's NOT lopsided (just sayin') AND it's wire wrapped in a stunning manner. Go to some of the stores linked in the sig line of folks here (that have been doing this for years) and take a look at what 25 to 32 bucks can buy. You would be amazed at the high quality pieces in that price range. I do enjoy seeing your efforts and your work is noticeably improving, but I'm thinking you are getting way ahead of yourself. Surely, if you keep at it, you'll get there. I'm not sure why, but you seem overly concerned with "what's this worth" when you really probably don't want to know. Keep practicing your cabbing and someday your time truly may be worth something. It's just not yet. I've seen some of the fine, polite folks here compliment tumbled rocks (NOT necessarily yours) that looked like something from out of a cat litter box. Ya ever read The Emperor's New Clothes? Don't let kind comments skew reality. I'm asking what the price of the rough opal is though, not the cab. The crysocholla cab I made is only for myself and probably wouldn't not sell it. I did not put a final polish in it yet as I do need to fix its lopsided issue.. but I wanted to see what a 3k polish looked like on it, but that is beside the point. I can say the same as with the varacite I don't know if that material is worth $.0001 /lb or $1,000,000/lb (exaggerating on purpose) thats what i'm wondering is what is the per pound price, not the price of a cab. My co-worker told me that almost all blue stones in rough are worth a lot of money... So I presume that the rough price of this is higher than say $5/lb |
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Post by MrP on Feb 15, 2015 19:51:27 GMT -5
Captbob Sometimes it is just not worth the effort is it?.................MrP
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 20:43:26 GMT -5
Let me rephrase since I think my question is being skewed... If that blue opal came in a box like this and had similar rough shapes what price per pound would I expect to be paying for it... (and yes, the photo is obviously not opal)  |
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2015 20:45:41 GMT -5
I agree some folks price a cab or pendant to reflect their time. My point is that unless the material is above average, and the composition reflects an artists eye, that cabs priced by time would be over-priced. Not saying some won't sell.
Time is valuable, and some rocks will never cover your time. Some compositions will not add value.
If the blue is good - like a nice shade and no inclusions or cracks - I could see people paying upwards of $6/lb. But if it does not show better than blue slag, then its price would be similar to slag and common agates and jaspers, which is all about $3 to $5/lb. Some named varieties of agate and jasper do fetch higher, but more than $5/lb for common unnamed agates and jaspers is expecting too much. Also, if sold by the flat-rate box, it should be discounted a bit.
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2015 20:49:50 GMT -5
small pieces like that count as tumble rough, and should go for about $3/lb
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 20:55:58 GMT -5
I agree some folks price a cab or pendant to reflect their time. My point is that unless the material is above average, and the composition reflects an artists eye, that cabs priced by time would be over-priced. Not saying some won't sell. Time is valuable, and some rocks will never cover your time. Some compositions will not add value. If the blue is good - like a nice shade and no inclusions or cracks - I could see people paying upwards of $6/lb. But if it does not show better than blue slag, then its price would be similar to slag and common agates and jaspers, which is all about $3 to $5/lb. Some named varieties of agate and jasper do fetch higher, but more than $5/lb for common unnamed agates and jaspers is expecting too much. Also, if sold by the flat-rate box, it should be discounted a bit. Ok, thanks! As for what you mention by time is that including the time studying the rock or just working the rock on the machines? I count my machine time not my eye time so to speak. |
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2015 21:13:30 GMT -5
All labor. Slabbing time, eye time, cabbing time, photographing time, - unless it is good material, well crafted and designed, the general price (with a few lucky exceptions) is not going to fetch minimum wage.
Even when someone gets $35 for a cab, if there is more than 2 hours in it, it is not very profitable unless you discount your time.
I see lots of folks sell cabs on facebook for $10, $12, $18 - only a few go over $20. IMO that kind of price is just helping to cover losses.
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 15, 2015 21:30:30 GMT -5
Ok, Yeah I see what your getting at now, the only time I get is the time of drilling or cutting / grinding, not all the other stuff.
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Post by captbob on Feb 15, 2015 23:12:21 GMT -5
If people want my stuff they pay what my time and materials is worth, As for what you mention by time is that including the time studying the rock or just working the rock on the machines? I count my machine time not my eye time so to speak. Ok, Yeah I see what your getting at now, the only time I get is the time of drilling or cutting / grinding, not all the other stuff. Time Time Time So, just what do you consider your time worth when valuing your creations? What's your $ number per hour? |
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Post by glennz01 on Feb 16, 2015 0:54:03 GMT -5
Well seeing how fully finished cabs take 1-1.5 hrs on the grinding wheels, about 1 hr cutting and looking and maybe drilling at the stones I guess i'd be at the $5/hr or so (the rest would be materials cost) at least at my current price ($20 for a cab). maybe less depending on how much goes to material cost.
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 16, 2015 9:51:15 GMT -5
.. and there is additional time in selling it. Photos, listing, correspondence, shipping. Hopefully some of these steps bunch several cabs together.
Non of this considers the actual net if you set aside a portion towards equipment upkeep, the energy use, or even if you paid (I suspect most don't) income tax and social security on any profit. (One point being that for most average cabs, there is no profit to pay tax on.)
There are two selling tracks:
1) recoop some of the expenses of a hobby, where you should only make pieces you enjoy - because you are working at a loss.
2) find a combination of quality material, artistic composition, technical skill, and market visibility that lets you sell $40-$100 cabs - and there is a following of customers who will pay that. Especially in composition and technique, it must be something imports seldom offer.
It may take many hours of practice to get pull this together. I see a few who have done it. On occasion I buy one of their more scenic cabs.
But all of this discussion started form the observation that the rough price of ordinary jasper, agate, opal, pet wood, epodite, serpentine, dolomite, rhyolite, obsidian ... etc is in the $2-$5 range, and that the cost of the material does not greatly effect the cost of the piece - which is driven by the quality of the result.
Named materials, with market desired qualities (e.g., clean translucence, plumes, multicolored, playful lines, scenes, other elements of design ...) can get $5 to $50/lb, and will have more to do with the price of the finished piece - although technique and artistry is never absent.
I would say 80% of lapidaries in the US today are in the 1st track.
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Post by captbob on Feb 16, 2015 11:20:28 GMT -5
Nice post Daniel. I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of those working at a loss is actually over 80 if they are being truthful about it.
I just don't see that big of a market for cabs, and imagine it's a losing venture for most - money wise.
But, if it's done for the joy of creating, profit be damned, then it's a win. IF something sells, that's a bonus.
For example, I go to rock shows and see booths with the seller's cabs displayed. I thoroughly enjoy looking at their work. But, do I buy the cabs? No. What for? I may buy the rough or slabs that they have offered.
I have bought wrapped cabs for my wife to wear from time to time, but it's not like she has hundreds to pick from depending on her outfit. I think she tolerates getting them because of my love for rocks.
I guess the reason that I haven't gotten into making cabs myself yet -even though I have all the equipment needed to do so- is what the hell would I do with them? I've got enough crap to dust as it is!
I'm not so presumptuous to believe that someone would buy my cabs over the millions of them already on the market. Nor would I care to expend the effort needed to break into such a saturated selling environment.
I may get there (cabbing) eventually if I ever have that kinda free time -that's the reason I bought all these machines, might as well use them for their intended purpose- I've just got too many other things ahead of that on my list. I'm kinda counting on cabbing being an pleasurable pass time if I can ever find the time!
An aspiration of riches derived from lapidary endeavors is more likely folly than something to be realized.
Sure, there are exceptions, and maybe even that 20% (doubtful) that makes a "profit".
Do it for the enjoyment and satisfaction. Not for the "what is it worth".
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