jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 9, 2015 9:02:04 GMT -5
I have now run 6 loads in the vibe using sugar. Ready to try Borax.
I final polished two loads of rotary polished coral in the vibe in AO 1 micron using sugar resulting in a fine polish.
I want to use Borax this time.
It is the same situation, just needs a 1 micron polish in the vibe on similar rotary polished coral.
If filler is needed, I probably have it.
It should be apples for apples comparison. I want to see if the Borax does a better/quicker job.
Thanks in advance.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 9, 2015 9:25:39 GMT -5
My UV18 holds something like 14 to 16 pounds of rock/media. I know that in 220, 600 and 1000 2 tbs. of borax will thicken the slurry effectively. Haven't been taking good notes lately so from memory .... last polish run I started with 1 tbs. then added 1/2 tbs. every few hours until I got the pasty consistency I was after. Believe it was four additions for a total of three tbs. borax. Also in the burnish 6 tbs. gives me rocks with a thin coating of borax throughout.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 9, 2015 10:04:24 GMT -5
My UV18 holds something like 14 to 16 pounds of rock/media. I know that in 220, 600 and 1000 2 tbs. of borax will thicken the slurry effectively. Haven't been taking good notes lately so from memory .... last polish run I started with 1 tbs. then added 1/2 tbs. every few hours until I got the pasty consistency I was after. Believe it was four additions for a total of three tbs. borax. Also in the burnish 6 tbs. gives me rocks with a thin coating of borax throughout. Thanks Ken. That is what I will do. Do you start with wet rocks(no water standing in the hopper) ? If it is a good range of sizes do I need filler ? The load will be 30% small polished coral.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 9, 2015 10:59:02 GMT -5
Yes I start with wet rock and no standing water jamesp. Add initial amount of borax first and run a few minutes. Have only run the UV a hand full of times and have always used ceramic media. One, because the Lot-O guys do. Two, didn't have enough material to fill. And three, last run had a lot of "big" pieces so felt I needed more smalls. Don't think a balanced load actually would require filler/media.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 9, 2015 12:36:24 GMT -5
Thanks tkvancil. Will go heavy on the smalls and use no rocks much larger than the size of a an Oreo cookie. Just a conservative tumble. Thanks for the advise.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2015 12:47:09 GMT -5
tkvancil- added a bit of water over a 1-3 hour period till the batter settled to a consistent thickness. Not knowing the exact amount of water to add I figured this is normal. Moisture is a bit of a seat of the pants deal. It is leaving vibratory track trails on the rocks, looks good. Very little rock rattle, just thin pieces occasionally. Used a bit more Borax, 4 tablespoons for 14 pounds rock, plenty of small agate filler. Not sure how hard my vibe shakes so added a bit more. Running AO 14,000 from Rock Shed. Seems to run with a thinner thickness of batter layer than sugar, but a thicker consistency. Roll rate of rocks about the same as sugar.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 11, 2015 9:21:37 GMT -5
tkvancil- added a bit of water over a 1-3 hour period till the batter settled to a consistent thickness. Not knowing the exact amount of water to add I figured this is normal. Moisture is a bit of a seat of the pants deal. It is leaving vibratory track trails on the rocks, looks good. Very little rock rattle, just thin pieces occasionally. Used a bit more Borax, 4 tablespoons for 14 pounds rock, plenty of small agate filler. Not sure how hard my vibe shakes so added a bit more. Running AO 14,000 from Rock Shed. Seems to run with a thinner thickness of batter layer than sugar, but a thicker consistency. Roll rate of rocks about the same as sugar. If I remember correctly what your describing is what I had. Thin layer of polish/borax film with a slightly slower roll rate than when originally started. When I took a piece out here and there to check the polish mix had a tacky feel to it. Thin but sticky is how I'd describe it. Could see the track trails on all the rocks and the sound was right. Smooth bee hive hum with no rattles or clattering. Last run was my fourth (maybe fifth) time. Memory failing. I'm pretty sure I had used too much water in previous runs. In the 220, 600, and 1000 steps the roll rate slowed down and I let it run at the slower rate. In previous runs I always added enough water along the way to get back to the initial roll rate. By allowing the vibe to run at the slower rate I think I had my best batch out of it to date. Had a real shine out of 1000 and am not even sure the polish did much to improve the shine. My guideline was when enough borax went in to slow the roll a little then keep that balance.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 11, 2015 10:02:11 GMT -5
Sounds exactly like my experience. The slow roll seems best with sugar too. Looks like the same game with borax. If the roll is slowed, the mix is thick and protecting the rocks I suppose. Bee hive hum is fine description, very few rattles. The Borax film is harder to remove, and I think that is a good thing. Film is very slick, great lubricant. Tuning the moisture is trickier, the sugar is slow to dry out. This morning the batter was in need of water, a bit on the too thick side for my comfort. The rocks have a super shine tkvancil. I think it put a shine on the rocks faster than sugar. Hard to say for sure because of starting point of finish. I may be using too much sugar at 1-2 cups per 14 pounds. I used 4 tablespoons of Borax on this 14 pound load. Maybe too much, causing the need for water injections. Thanks for the help. Good to hear comparisons.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 11, 2015 10:24:49 GMT -5
Glad your getting a shine on jamesp. The borax is indeed slick. Have seen an oily film on top of my rinse waters before. Sugar, borax, or Metamucil, different ingredients to the same end I suppose.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 11, 2015 11:32:37 GMT -5
Glad your getting a shine on jamesp. The borax is indeed slick. Have seen an oily film on top of my rinse waters before. Sugar, borax, or Metamucil, different ingredients to the same end I suppose. The finish steps are probably able to be improved. The coarse grind is the stubborn one.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 11, 2015 13:05:44 GMT -5
tkvancil-Easiest way to get the borax off at finish of polish ?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 11, 2015 14:28:22 GMT -5
I add a squirt of Dawn at the end of any run. Borax just rinses off.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 11, 2015 16:45:56 GMT -5
I add a squirt of Dawn at the end of any run. Borax just rinses off. Thanks Rob.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 12, 2015 5:31:25 GMT -5
I add a squirt of Dawn at the end of any run. Borax just rinses off. Thanks Rob. Added the Dawn and ran the vibe a minute or two to spread the Dawn. Then added water to the top of the hopper and ran the vibe for a couple of minutes to dilute. The rocks still roll, but very slowly when hopper is full of water.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 12, 2015 5:51:19 GMT -5
tkvancil- I quoted you : "Last run was my fourth (maybe fifth) time. Memory failing. I'm pretty sure I had used too much water in previous runs. In the 220, 600, and 1000 steps the roll rate slowed down and I let it run at the slower rate. In previous runs I always added enough water along the way to get back to the initial roll rate. By allowing the vibe to run at the slower rate I think I had my best batch out of it to date. Had a real shine out of 1000 and am not even sure the polish did much to improve the shine. My guideline was when enough borax went in to slow the roll a little then keep that balance." On the first run of coral I used 50% glass media and coral. Thru 220-500-1000-polish. Straight water, no thickener. I did get a fine polish. But it took like 2-3 days on each grit. And had to do all 4 steps. Using sugar it allowed shorter times and skipping 1000. So 220-500-polish, 2 days each. But zero filler. Results from sugar verses Borax, looks like the Borax was almost twice as fast as the sugar. But may be the same if sugar was cut back. The sugar was real thick, and left no vibration trails on the rock. Looks like Borax is the best, on polish anyway, @ four tablespoons per 14 pounds. And Borax was kept pasty. Three tablespoons of Borax would probably have gotten the job done. The rocks feel more slippery with a thin layer of Borax than the thick sugar. I think the visible vibration trails using Borax is key sign that rocks are getting worked.
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Post by captbob on Mar 12, 2015 10:39:55 GMT -5
Added the Dawn and ran the vibe a minute or two to spread the Dawn. Then added water to the top of the hopper and ran the vibe for a couple of minutes to dilute. The rocks still roll, but very slowly when hopper is full of water. But did it work? Was the borax cleaned off or easier to clean?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 12, 2015 11:28:34 GMT -5
Added the Dawn and ran the vibe a minute or two to spread the Dawn. Then added water to the top of the hopper and ran the vibe for a couple of minutes to dilute. The rocks still roll, but very slowly when hopper is full of water. But did it work? Was the borax cleaned off or easier to clean? Yes and no, they dried without spots which is the goal. But they still had a slight slick film on them when wet, which is not a concern.
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