jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 12, 2015 18:20:01 GMT -5
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matt2432
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2014
Posts: 171
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Post by matt2432 on Mar 12, 2015 20:35:18 GMT -5
Well? what are your conclusions on how it compares with sugar? It looks like a good polish to me...
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Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 12, 2015 21:14:36 GMT -5
X2 for Matt's question.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 12, 2015 21:22:28 GMT -5
They are all beauties you've sure got the shine down. Sweet! (Even without sugar ) Especially love the botryoidal one (venereal warts, lol) in the bottom of the first pic!
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tyandnan
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since April 2014
Posts: 96
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Post by tyandnan on Mar 12, 2015 21:32:34 GMT -5
Very nice shine!
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Post by captbob on Mar 12, 2015 21:46:04 GMT -5
Matt's question again. Sugar vs Borax comparison? Both polish & time to achieve results info?
What are all the backlit pictures for, what are we supposed to be seeing there?
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Post by orrum on Mar 12, 2015 22:50:13 GMT -5
X2 da?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 2:39:13 GMT -5
Sugar is easier. Add sugar, then water, 5 minutes later the sugar is dissolved and the slurry is established and good to go for 24 hours before adding water again.
The Borax slurry is slower to establish. Seemed a bit finicky and more sensitive to water additions. Had to keep an eye on it for a for several hours. But that was probably lack of experience. Pre-measured dose of Borax and water should solve that. The borax got thick quicker. Felt compelled to add water every 12 hours. May have used too much @ 4 tablespoons for 14 pounds.
The Borax is faster. At least on polish. Slurry thickness means a lot in a vibe. The Borax ran dryer, pastier and thinner than the sugar and the rocks rolled faster to boot. Less sugar and dryer may equal the Borax, but I doubt it. Thicker sugar slows the roll. Maybe less sugar would be better. Hard to say.
If I was busy and running agate I might use sugar because it does well on a 24 hour cycle. If wanting to get the job done faster and manage the slurry I would use Borax at this point, not knowing the doses yet.
The one thing that stood out with the Borax was the shine on the glass filler. The glass had a better polish than when using sugar. Next soft rock or obsidian run will be Borax. Mixed hardness loads would be Borax.
When puling samples in sugar they were easier to clean. The Borax is stubborn and leaves a film. Hard to wash off. Thinking this is a good thing. That stubborn film is probably protecting the rocks better.
They both put a great polish down. I tired to compare, they are very close. The Borax seemed to reach deep spots better and was faster.
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Post by snowmom on Mar 13, 2015 6:20:35 GMT -5
Good input. OH, they did shine up great, didn't they? That's a super shine on some very nice corals. Love the variety of colors and textures. Beautiful stuff!
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 13, 2015 8:37:12 GMT -5
Nice mirror shine on those babies.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 11:02:46 GMT -5
Nice mirror shine on those babies. Thanks for walking me through the Borax. Confidence gained. Totally different texture than sugar. Got a pile of old rotary tumbles that need polish touch ups. Great test stock. Will try a load of darker Rio Grande agates next. That stuff will show a shine. I did run some rotary runs for 2 weeks in sugar and 14,000. Those are darn shiny. Sugar works fine in the rotary.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 11:20:53 GMT -5
Matt's question again. Sugar vs Borax comparison? Both polish & time to achieve results info? What are all the backlit pictures for, what are we supposed to be seeing there? Back lit so you can see the guts captbob. Coral guts...
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Thunder69
Cave Dweller
Thunder 2000-2015
Member since January 2009
Posts: 3,104
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Post by Thunder69 on Mar 13, 2015 11:34:08 GMT -5
I just use borax and I like it a lot better.I don't have much of a science for it but I know it cleans up the rocks a whole lot better than I thought they would.one thing I would say about getting the film off is use hot water.. works a lot better and gets all the rocks that slick feeling. . I have used sugar before but it seemed more cumbersome to do..I check my batch 3 times a day..Once when I get up once after work and then before bed... John
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 13, 2015 11:58:18 GMT -5
great looking shine on those beauties. The question is what will you be trying next? Dare I say an obsidian batch with borax ....lol
Chuck
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 12:44:32 GMT -5
I just use borax and I like it a lot better.I don't have much of a science for it but I know it cleans up the rocks a whole lot better than I thought they would.one thing I would say about getting the film off is use hot water.. works a lot better and gets all the rocks that slick feeling. . I have used sugar before but it seemed more cumbersome to do..I check my batch 3 times a day..Once when I get up once after work and then before bed... John To rest well I like your 3 checks a day routine. The(1/3 HP)motor in my vibe is directly under the hopper and heats up the load. Dries it out quick. Reaching into the rocks is like pulling the warm guts out of a deer on a cold day TMI ha. Worse on hot days. That slight film from the Borax does not seem to be a problem as far as leaving spots. If you wash sugar tumbled rocks in hot water they get sticky as they dry. Best thing with the sugar was to leave the rocks out in the rain and weather for a month.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 13:01:20 GMT -5
great looking shine on those beauties. The question is what will you be trying next? Dare I say an obsidian batch with borax ....lol Chuck Just started a load of old self collected Rio Grandes. Already rotary tumbled, just getting a vibe polish going. Do have a load of obsidian rolling. It will sure see Borax in the vibe, Borax seems to like polishing glass filler better than the sugar. Borax is impressive. Keeps the rocks rolling fast and thick consistency at the same time. First attempt went real well. Will be interested to see if a polish happens using AO 500. That is a good benchmark. A good sign that the tumbler/slurry is doing what it should in breaking the grit down. Viking instructions said nothing about sugar or Borax. Said to used Tumbl-Trol tablets. Wonder what they are ??
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Post by captbob on Mar 13, 2015 13:10:37 GMT -5
Matt's question again. Sugar vs Borax comparison? Both polish & time to achieve results info? What are all the backlit pictures for, what are we supposed to be seeing there? Back lit so you can see the guts captbob. Coral guts... Gotcha. Interesting I 'spose, I just like the surface look better. Those first couple pics with some "bark" left on the pieces is what I would have been going after, and you just nailed the look! Super shine. So your bottom line is (?) not much difference in the shine between the sugar and the borax. Sugar easier, borax faster. Borax brought glass to a better shine - but not noticeably superior w/ rocks? Nice work, fun being a spectator and watching the show with all it's different acts. Looking forward to an encore! Obsidian? Reckon your busy season is fast approaching. I will miss the hourly installments of James' World as your time becomes devoted more to your business. Hope we don't all suffer from withdrawals! Just coming off two weeks of acute bronchitis / pneumonia (way fun!) so I'll try to pick up some of the slack as I return to the world of the living. Ready to move my 5 month obsidian tumble to polish. Thanking God that rotary is set and forget! Must try without additives just to see if I can accomplish my goal.
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on Mar 13, 2015 13:37:38 GMT -5
Great shine & thank you for the added info on how things worked for ya, may have to give the sugar thing a try on my next batch of Lakers.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 13:38:04 GMT -5
"Gotcha. Interesting I 'spose, I just like the surface look better. Those first couple pics with some "bark" left on the pieces is what I would have been going after, and you just nailed the look! Super shine. So your bottom line is (?) not much difference in the shine between the sugar and the borax. Sugar easier, borax faster. Borax brought glass to a better shine - but not noticeably superior w/ rocks?" Well put captbob. Shine not noticeably superior on the coral, bet better than sugar on the glass filler. Glass filler looking good in the Borax. That is a big deal. a bit of glass thrown in there tells a lot about conditions in a tumbler of any sort. So the obsidian will get the borax for sure. Just started a load of Rio Grande agate in polish. Huge variety, many did not take a polish in the rotary. Like rhyolite/softer jaspers/wood/silicified basalt. Will be a good test of a mixed hardness run. Sorry to hear about the pneumonia, hope you are not a smoker. That can slow healing process. Florida was cold about 3 weeks ago; maybe that was the culprit. Noticed you were laying low, thought maybe you had taken a voyage/vacation. Your Thumlers have rubber barrels. The more I think about what you said about the hard PVC the more I wonder if it bruises obsidian. That steel tumbler bruises the heck out of any rock that goes in it. Something to be said for a soft barrel. Good luck with the OB. I should think it is well rounded by now.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,562
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Post by jamesp on Mar 13, 2015 13:44:26 GMT -5
Great shine & thank you for the added info on how things worked for ya, may have to give the sugar thing a try on my next batch of Lakers. az, I ran that sugar real thick at a cup or two for 14 pounds of rock. It may have done better with a half cup. Who knows. Recipe has a lot to do with that slurry. Agate is kinda bulletproof. The real test will be obsidian and rhyolite. I have some really soft heated rhyolite. No matter what I did with sugar it would not take a fine polish. I will rerun that particular rhyolite. If the Borax polishes it then it is the way. Excellent one to test the Borax on.
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