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Post by snowmom on Mar 16, 2015 12:36:26 GMT -5
In the light of experimentation going on here lately, I decided to try the 2 step polish everybody has been talking about. I tried something else instead of Borax, though. Murphy's liquid Oil Soap is thick and slimy stuff- would it act as cushion and lubricant like soap or borax, and omit the need for sugar or Metamucil? this photo was taken after only 72 hours in the lot-o, 24 with 150/250 SC, and then at 24 hours adding 500 AS (what I had on hand). I did not rinse the batch but retained the original slurry.
I have returned the rocks to the tumbler (Lot O 3.5 lb) along with the still thickening slurry to see what happens in the next 12-24 hours. I have not had to add water again. Still quite wet and slippery though a slight 'mud' is developing. Looks better than my first 2 attempts following the Lot-O directions. This is only my third tumble, so I am pretty excited. Things I have learned so far: I didn't need to add water to the Murphy's soap, just use the soap itself, it is liquid enough. I added 1/4 C murphys and 1/4 water at first, and it was too runny. I removed quite a bit of the liquid/soap mix to lower the amount of liquid present. Next time I won't add water at all, only use the Murphy's. My media is pea gravel which was used for the previous 2 rock polishing loads and which seems to have only hard agate like rounded pieces left in it. I left out all the plastic cushion material I had used the first 2 polish attempts. Murphy's Oil soap PH is more highly alkaline than Borax, at 11.0 compared to 8.0 . I wonder if the alkalinity of these media additions contributes somehow to the shine attained? I have noticed that many of the green and black rocks I added to this load are now blue grey or lighter green and the rocks show many inclusions and patterns which were not visible before. The slight slurry which has developed is not discolored. I wonder where the dark color in the rocks went? This is no doubt a characteristic of the rocks I have selected, and I doubt that this discoloration will happen to other rocks polished. I also have red jasper and several colors of quartz or feldspar as you can see, and the color in those has remained unchanged. I have a tendency to put in too many larger rocks to polish and this considerably slows the action of the tumbler. Note to self, look for smaller rocks to polish so I can have a more evenly balanced load. And don't put in more than 2 large ones at a time! ! ! Will take another photo in a day or two and report progress or problems.
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Post by gingerkid on Mar 16, 2015 14:05:35 GMT -5
Sounds interesting that you are doing the 2-step dance with Murphy's Oil Soap, snowmom. Did your tumbles feel sticky after they dried? I recall that Murphy's makes wood furniture feel kinda sticky after you use it.
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Post by snowmom on Mar 16, 2015 14:09:17 GMT -5
nope, I washed them with dish detergent and rinsed a whole bunch, something you can't do with wood surfaces!
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riverrock
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since April 2010
Posts: 1,395
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Post by riverrock on Mar 16, 2015 17:07:19 GMT -5
The smouther the rock the better the shine , keep us updated.
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 16, 2015 17:11:32 GMT -5
In the light of experimentation going on here lately, I decided to try the 2 step polish everybody has been talking about. I tried something else instead of Borax, though.  Murphy's liquid Oil Soap is thick and slimy stuff- would it act as cushion and lubricant like soap or borax, and omit the need for sugar or Metamucil?  this photo was taken after only 72 hours in the lot-o, 24 with 150/250 SC, and then at 24 hours adding 500 AS (what I had on hand). I did not rinse the batch but retained the original slurry. Â
I have returned the rocks to the tumbler (Lot O 3.5 lb) along with the still thickening slurry to see what happens in the next 12-24 hours. I have not had to add water again. Still quite wet and slippery though a slight 'mud' is developing.  Looks better than my first 2 attempts following the Lot-O directions. This is only my third tumble, so I am pretty excited. Things I have learned so far:  I didn't need to add water to the Murphy's soap, just use the soap itself, it is liquid enough. I added 1/4 C murphys and 1/4 water at first, and it was too runny. I removed quite a bit of the liquid/soap mix to lower the amount of liquid present. Next time I won't add water at all, only use the Murphy's.  My media is pea gravel which was used for the previous 2 rock polishing loads and which seems to have only hard agate like rounded pieces left in it. I left out all the plastic cushion material I had used the first 2 polish attempts. Murphy's Oil soap PH is more highly alkaline than Borax, at 11.0 compared to 8.0  . I wonder if the alkalinity of these media additions contributes somehow to the shine attained? I have noticed that many of the green and black rocks I added to this load are now blue grey or lighter green and the rocks show many inclusions and patterns which were not visible before. The slight slurry which has developed is not discolored. I wonder where the dark color in the rocks went? This is no doubt a characteristic of the rocks I have selected, and I doubt that this discoloration will happen to other rocks polished. I also have red jasper and several colors of quartz or feldspar as you can see, and the color in those has remained unchanged.  I have a tendency to put in too many larger rocks to polish and this considerably slows the action of the tumbler. Note to self, look for smaller rocks to polish so I can have a more evenly balanced load. And don't put in more than 2 large ones at a time! !  !   Will take another photo in a day or two and report progress or problems. Watching. When did you get a lot-o btw? I had to triple check the thread to make sure it wasn't jamesp writing it
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Post by snowmom on Mar 17, 2015 5:43:12 GMT -5
Jimi, I've had that since July or August of 2014, I'm still pretty new to all this. It is taking time to garner all the equipment I need to really get active on it since we will be short of funds for another couple of years (spouse is younger than me and not yet drawing social security or able to draw from his pension). trying to learn all I can in the mean time. I got good advice from experienced forum members before making that purchase, there is a thread somewhere..... eventually i'll be able to be more active in all things rock related, God willing and the Cree(k) don't rise.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 17, 2015 6:54:40 GMT -5
I tried high ph lime as a thickener Deb. It would burn your hands. It was a good thickener. Used it on obsidian, which is a rock that is not effected by ph. If you soak agate in muratic acid it will sure dissolve pockets of lime spots in agates. High ph probably safer than low ph, but it probably depends on the composition of the rocks. Extreme ph may contribute to under cutting.
Murphy oil, the list of thickeners is growing. Two runs with Borax here, leaning towards it for best so far. It is ph mild. Got to give the psyllium/Metamucil a good go too.
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Post by snowmom on Mar 17, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5
so much to learn, so little time!
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Post by snowmom on Mar 19, 2015 15:24:49 GMT -5
well, I pulled the rock from the Lot-O this morning. They had got pretty shiny but the undercutting on almost all of them was pretty bad and it was a total pain to scrub the white batter remains out of all the nooks an crannys. I mark this up to poor choices in tumbling material rather than anything wrong with the process itself. Note to self, start with more solid pieces. I did learn a few things about the black rocks I stuck into the matrix, the black seems to be iron absorbed from long contact with the water here, and after the surface wears for a bit, the rocks show their true colors of blue grey, greenish grey, and all seem to be mixed with a great deal of feldspar. I may start another thread before long addressing everything I have learned about the black rocks from this area. I've had a lot more input, but that is another story. So, I feel like the polish process is a success but will pull these unsatisfactory rocks and search in my rock pantry to find a batch of more solid rocks and start again. I have a good batter in the tumbler and will just leave it there, adding new 120/220 SC and proceeding with a new batch and maybe a bit more Murphys oil Soap if it seems like it is getting too dry along the way. More to report in probably 72 hours or so. Thanks for looking!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 19, 2015 20:06:26 GMT -5
Those look really shiny. My mom and mother-in-law both use Murphy's Oil soap, but I've never used it. Is the oil adding to the shine, or does it wash off completely?
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 382
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Post by 1nickthegreek on Mar 19, 2015 20:53:13 GMT -5
well, I pulled the rock from the Lot-O this morning. They had got pretty shiny but the undercutting on almost all of them was pretty bad and it was a total pain to scrub the white batter remains out of all the nooks an crannys. Easiest way I have found to get the polish out of my tumbles is to add a few drops of dawn dishsoap and about a 1/4 inch of water in the Lot-O cap to the barrel, let it run for 30 minutes and then add about a cup of water and another few drops of dawn n let run until whenever you get back to it and then just rinse well. Works great for me to do it that way.
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Post by snowmom on Mar 20, 2015 4:48:40 GMT -5
Those look really shiny. My mom and mother-in-law both use Murphy's Oil soap, but I've never used it. Is the oil adding to the shine, or does it wash off completely? it rinses right off, it is not really oily, as in oil... more viscous and seems completely dissolved in water. I was told years ago that it was flax soap but I suspect the original company's recipe has been "updated".
then again, maybe not, just found this. www.mcoe.us/view/1739.pdf
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Post by snowmom on Mar 23, 2015 7:41:38 GMT -5
sad update. New batch was in the tumbler at 48 hours and showing signs of getting smooth, thought I'd leave it for 72, went to the garage to check on it and there was ice on everything. Haven't seen above freezing since Friday and last night was down to 6 or so... unplugged the Lot-o and the whole project is 'frozen' until there are several days above freezing again. Won't be long now.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 23, 2015 14:54:09 GMT -5
Writing the information down....Pencil is sharpened...
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Post by gingerkid on Mar 24, 2015 9:26:45 GMT -5
Hi, snowmom! Were you able to remove your tumbles from your Lot-O?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2015 12:37:41 GMT -5
Spring is coming soon !! Watch the temps.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 10:15:18 GMT -5
jamesp instead of metamucil have you tried oatmeal?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2015 10:38:29 GMT -5
jamesp instead of metamucil have you tried oatmeal? Scott, the only organic additives that come highly recommended are corn, psyllium, walnut and rice hulls. Active ingredient in Metamucil is psyllium hulls. Never the seed heart, just the seed hull. I don't know about other seed hulls, but rice hulls are 25% opaline silica and sink like a rock. Nature apparently makes some wicked seed hull material. For that matter, oat hulls may be doable.
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Post by gingerkid on Mar 25, 2015 10:53:27 GMT -5
snowmom, have you checked your tumbler? jamesp instead of metamucil have you tried oatmeal? Scott... For that matter, oat hulls may be doable. With 2 scoops of raisins.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,165
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2015 10:57:42 GMT -5
gingerkid-remember Mom's plume juice. She had to catch us to make us drink that crap. preferred the whippin
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