Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on Jul 13, 2015 11:25:39 GMT -5
Currently I tumble rocks to polish and perhaps make subjects of pendants. Out of a four pound load I might get four or five pieces that would be suitable. I'd like to 'up' that figure and one way that I can do that is to 'grind' a flat face on a selected stone which would otherwise not be acceptable as a stone for a pendant. That is the machine called that can do this so that I can further research. Also I tried wire wrapping but find that for my taste the wire detracts from the beauty of the stone. A possible way around this, other than my current method of mounting bails either by drilling a hole or by attaching a bail to a 'flat' surface, is to make a silver frame around the perimeter of a stone piece, much like in making stained glass pieces, and perhaps soldering a bail onto this silver frame.
That's pretty much the outline of what I would like to accomplish but I am unfamiliar with the related terminology of techniques and tools and supplies. Can someone out there get me started? In addition to making suggestions perhaps cite some books on the subjects that I have outlined? Thank you.
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Post by snowmom on Jul 13, 2015 11:47:10 GMT -5
You've come to the right place Dave, lots of knowledge on this forum and lots of helpful folks with good information. The back threads right here contain a wealth of good info to hold you over until people start responding to your questions. Welcome to the forum!
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Post by Pat on Jul 13, 2015 12:29:21 GMT -5
Currently I tumble rocks to polish and perhaps make subjects of pendants. Out of a four pound load I might get four or five pieces that would be suitable. I'd like to 'up' that figure and one way that I can do that is to 'grind' a flat face on a selected stone which would otherwise not be acceptable as a stone for a pendant. That is the machine called that can do this so that I can further research. Also I tried wire wrapping but find that for my taste the wire detracts from the beauty of the stone. A possible way around this, other than my current method of mounting bails either by drilling a hole or by attaching a bail to a 'flat' surface, is to make a silver frame around the perimeter of a stone piece, much like in making stained glass pieces, and perhaps soldering a bail onto this silver frame. That's pretty much the outline of what I would like to accomplish but I am unfamiliar with the related terminology of techniques and tools and supplies. Can someone out there get me started? In addition to making suggestions perhaps cite some books on the subjects that I have outlined? Thank you. The machine for making a flat face on a cab is called a flat lap. I think mine is a 6" Ameritool flat lap. I like it.. I think you are referring to a bezel. This is the narrow piece of metal that runs around the perimeter of the stone. Generally, the bail is soldered to the backplate, not the bezel since the bezel is fine silver and thin. You don't need a bezel wire all the way around. It can be partial, with a prong here and there, or all prongs. Sources: riogrande.com Good service, tech support and website. I use them regularly. Call and ask for their paper catalogs. tripps.com good items, terrible website. Call for their paper catalog. Good luck. It's fun.
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Post by stardiamond on Jul 13, 2015 13:49:09 GMT -5
You can also cut a flat face with a tile/slab saw. Go to the wrapping board and look at groove wraps.
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Post by captbob on Jul 13, 2015 14:19:57 GMT -5
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Post by orrum on Jul 13, 2015 15:44:36 GMT -5
You can also get step bezel that you wrap around the stone and once measure then you solder the ends together and solder a bail on and walaaa no backing and then just put the stone in your bezel and push the bezel around the stone. Saves a lot of silver expense.
If you can find a club and join that does these things you can use their equipment and learn plus you can see all the wonderful things others do in the world of lapidary and get a idea of what you like.
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Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on Jul 14, 2015 10:26:54 GMT -5
You can also get step bezel that you wrap around the stone and once measure then you solder the ends together and solder a bail on and walaaa no backing and then just put the stone in your bezel and push the bezel around the stone. Saves a lot of silver expense. If you can find a club and join that does these things you can use their equipment and learn plus you can see all the wonderful things others do in the world of lapidary and get a idea of what you like. Thank you. Can you provide the name and author of a good publication that describes in some detail rather than generalities basics like flat lapping, and types of and applications of bezels? I'm rather a visual kind of person and word descriptions without back grounding just doesn't communicate well. I found captbob's 'groove wrapped cabs' very instructive. I'm not particularly interested in making symmetrical cabs. Symmetry I don't find interesting; just a personal feeling. I like more the random shapes as they come from the tumbler. Then flat lapping a side, followed (I think?) with grinding the sides perpendicular to the 'flat' that I just lapped, followed with ether routing in a groove to take a wire which is turned into a bail OR surrounding in total or in in part the prepared stone in a bezel with a bail 'somehow' affixed to the bezel. I pretty well know what I'd like to do, I just don't really know how to get there. Thank you. Dave
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Post by orrum on Jul 14, 2015 11:00:28 GMT -5
Reading and looking at pics is good but this hobby isn't difficult to master but it is very hard to understand thru reading and explanations. Bedt for you to buy a good dremel and start doing it. I used one with a little diamond saw blade and little grinding things snd felt and Muslim polis wheels and if I must Bragg... Hey they were pretty good cabs! Just use a dispan with a little water in it to work over and dip in the water. Itbworks, I learned on turquoise and marble, they are soft.
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Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on Jul 14, 2015 11:54:32 GMT -5
You can also get step bezel that you wrap around the stone and once measure then you solder the ends together and solder a bail on and walaaa no backing and then just put the stone in your bezel and push the bezel around the stone. Saves a lot of silver expense. If you can find a club and join that does these things you can use their equipment and learn plus you can see all the wonderful things others do in the world of lapidary and get a idea of what you like. It would be great to find a club that does other things than go on prospecting trips (which are also fun) but, alas, nothing is really available up here so I have to rely on sites like this. I realize that the techniques involved are probably fairly simple but I would still like to lay my hands on a manual that starts fm scratch; comparing flat lap machines and how to effectively use. (Even the jargon like 'backing plate' I think that I understand but ...) and then the various finer grits - I guess that they are adhesive? Are there other choices? And then the glass grinder no problem really but finding out things like the compatibility of various grinding attachments ... Arbor sizes aren't always (or ever?) given in the specs, or are they standard throughout the industry? Even if what I want to do is simple in principle I still tend to be rather cautious when considering the many hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. Trial and error is NOT the way to go! I apologize for my persistence on what the viewer thinks is oh, so simple. Thank you. Dave
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Post by orrum on Jul 14, 2015 15:19:00 GMT -5
Hey persistence is good, we like go getters! I have never used a book but someone on here will cjim in with s reference for you. As to money I warn you this hobby is extremely addictive! LOL. But the rewards are so... well rewarding!!!
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jul 14, 2015 22:53:44 GMT -5
Hi Dave, and welcome.
YouTube is an awesome resource for tutorials on anything rock/lapidary/metal smithing. Also just google what you want and you will find a ton of material and a lot of it will lead you back to this forum. There are also hundreds of books but as I find most of my info from the net, here or just experimenting I can't recommend any. I spend a lot of time just reading random posts on this forum, most are informative in some way, searching the forum can "zoom" you in on more specifics, but I find Google search better.
Tom
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Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on Jul 15, 2015 8:02:44 GMT -5
Thank you, Tom. I agree tht YouTube is an excellent info source but just didn't occur to me for this particular series of questions that I have. Dave
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jul 15, 2015 9:47:38 GMT -5
Welcome to the site, Dave. If I understand you, you want a naturally shaped tumbled stone with a flat back that you can glue a bail onto. I think I'd use a lapidary trim saw or a tile saw to cut off the back of my rocks and then tumble them. You could use a flat lap to grind the back flat, but it would take a lot of grinding. Cutting would be quicker.
You can watch Craig's List and eBay for used lapidary equipment. The only things I've purchased new were my tumblers.
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Dave Schmidt
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2015
Posts: 10
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Post by Dave Schmidt on Jul 16, 2015 10:56:41 GMT -5
Welcome to the site, Dave. If I understand you, you want a naturally shaped tumbled stone with a flat back that you can glue a bail onto. I think I'd use a lapidary trim saw or a tile saw to cut off the back of my rocks and then tumble them. You could use a flat lap to grind the back flat, but it would take a lot of grinding. Cutting would be quicker. You can watch Craig's List and eBay for used lapidary equipment. The only things I've purchased new were my tumblers. Thanks. I'm coming to the same conclusion. Tumbling to smooth out the edges a bit and polish,then using a lapidary trim saw to cut a flat side, then 'lap' it smooth, grind the perimeter of the trimmed stone perpendicular to the lapped flat side to take a bezel. (Or cut a groove in the perpendicularly ground sides to take a wire to make a 'wrapped' bezel.) I'd like to make a free-form bezel which would follow the asymmetrical perimeter of the stone and then 'somehow' attach a simple bail. For me it's all about simplicity; doing nothing that detracts the attention from the natural beauty of the stone itself. Please comment and offer suggestions as to work flow and recommended equipment, if you wish. I'm just feeling my way which leads to mny dead ends especially since I'm a novice.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2015 11:55:21 GMT -5
It's hard to know exactly what you want or need to suit your tastes. You gave a lot of good direction, though. I would think that if you bought slabs, which already have a flat back, then you could use a cheap tile saw (100.00 or less) to saw to shape and then use a flatlap (new is a little pricey) to cab. You can then use a glass grinder (I got one used pretty cheap) with groove bit to make a grove wrap. However, if you don't want to make a groove (which requires a thicker slab), then you could do a simple wire border wrap which would not distract from the stone.
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Post by Pat on Jul 16, 2015 14:21:56 GMT -5
It's hard to know exactly what you want or need to suit your tastes. You gave a lot of good direction, though. I would think that if you bought slabs, which already have a flat back, then you could use a cheap tile saw (100.00 or less) to saw to shape and then use a flatlap (new is a little pricey) to cab. You can then use a glass grinder (I got one used pretty cheap) with groove bit to make a grove wrap. However, if you don't want to make a groove (which requires a thicker slab), then you could do a simple wire border wrap which would not distract from the stone. Re cheap saws: I have a 4" tile saw, used $7; a 7" tile saw used $20; and MK 100? 101? 10" tile saw used $300. Check our Harbor Freight. For cutting a groove around the edges, I have a Gryphon This thing: www.amazon.com/Gryphon-FBAGRYPHETTE-Gryphette-Glass-Grinder/dp/B003GF707M
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