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Post by jakesrocks on Aug 16, 2015 19:33:48 GMT -5
Don't know what the laws are in your area, but I'd get a concealed carry permit, and a big gun to carry. Next time the guy tries to follow you, stop dead in the street and step out of your car with the gun in your hand. Most people who are trying to scare someone won't be expecting to be confronted. He'll probably need to change his drawers & wash his car seat.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 16, 2015 20:25:24 GMT -5
Wow, I have a CCW permit and you do not want to step out of your car and brandish. He will film you and phone the cops you will go directly to jail! Brandishment and making that kind of threat is a crime and you are not protected by castle doctrine out on a road. This is not a television program like Ray Donavon. He would have to directly threaten your life before you pulled and you'd have to have witnesses. Otherwise, if he was not carrying, it would be your word against his and he would most likely win. He follows you home and tries something on your property at night, or breaks into your home, different story. I ain't a lawyer and laws differ from state to state but I'd talk to the cops about your legal options and the parameters that must be adhered to before I did anything with a gun.....Mel
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spiritstone
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Member since August 2014
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Post by spiritstone on Aug 16, 2015 21:31:09 GMT -5
FYI
Defining Stalking in the Criminal Code According to the Criminal Code, the behavior is criminal harassment if (1) it caused you to fear for your safety or that of someone known to you, and (2) your fear was reasonable in all the circumstances. The law also requires that the behavior must happen more than once for it to be considered an offence.
While self-defense isn't considered a legal reason for attaining a PAL, the use of force with a firearm is legal as long as the defendant can prove that his or her life was in danger. Section 34 and 35 of the Criminal Code provides the legal framework of the use of force against intruders.[30]
Self-defence against unprovoked assault 34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself. Extent of justification (2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if (a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and (b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. Self-defence in case of aggression 35. Every one who has without justification assaulted another but did not commence the assault with intent to cause death or grievous bodily harm, or has without justification provoked an assault on himself by another, may justify the use of force subsequent to the assault if (a) he uses the force (i) under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence of the person whom he has assaulted or provoked, and (ii) in the belief, on reasonable grounds, that it is necessary in order to preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm; (b) he did not, at any time before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose, endeavour to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and (c) he declined further conflict and quitted or retreated from it as far as it was feasible to do so before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose. Provocation 36. Provocation includes, for the purposes of sections 34 and 35, provocation by blows, words or gestures. Preventing assault 37. (1) Every one is justified in using force to defend himself or any one under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it. Extent of justification (2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to justify the wilful infliction of any hurt or mischief that is excessive, having regard to the nature of the assault that the force used was intended to prevent.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by panamark on Aug 16, 2015 22:18:42 GMT -5
Wow, I have a CCW permit and you do not want to step out of your car and brandish. He will film you and phone the cops you will go directly to jail! Brandishment and making that kind of threat is a crime and you are not protected by castle doctrine out on a road. This is not a television program like Ray Donavon. He would have to directly threaten your life before you pulled and you'd have to have witnesses. Otherwise, if he was not carrying, it would be your word against his and he would most likely win. He follows you home and tries something on your property at night, or breaks into your home, different story. I ain't a lawyer and laws differ from state to state but I'd talk to the cops about your legal options and the parameters that must be adhered to before I did anything with a gun.....Mel Mel, you are right on here. The stuff they show on TV along with today's machismo gets a lot of people in BIG trouble. Furthermore, concealed carry means you MUST keep the weapon concealed. A lot of people don't understand this and get into big trouble. And pulling a gun to threaten is never a good idea. You WILL end up in jail. Surprisingly, even those who shoot someone in self-defense usually end up in jail until the facts can be sorted out. And then they have months of litigation to survive, even if they have shot some low-life scum bag. That is our legal system. One major principle of self defense is to avoid armed conflict if at all possible. The best solution is to successfully flee. If someone's life is in eminent danger, then engagement is often necessary. I was taught that you never want to try to scare someone off by showing your weapon, nor to even let them know you have a weapon. The element of surprise is HUGE and you should not give it up. Only pull your weapon when you believe you will need to use it. And once the decision to use it is made, do not hesitate. Carrying is a serious responsibility, so please take a good self defense class. just my 2cents
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 17, 2015 2:43:56 GMT -5
Video him following you. Law enf will look at hours of video. They love video. Keep the video running until you find a policeman or a date/time on a bank or maybe your cell phone to stamp a time. Get out of the car and whip out the video camera and let him see you videoing him. It is your best weapon. File a report at law enforcement every time there is offending activity. Keep them informed. Get the phone number of the hungriest cop and call him when being followed, turn around and follow him and call that cop. Or at least ask the cop if you should follow him, it is legal to follow him back if he has been reported as a stalking threat. Unfortunate situation, and proof is pretty much a burden on the one being stalked. Cops love pursuing stalkers. Gameful employment.
Stalking very much includes harassment. Coming to your door is not a good idea on your neighbor's behalf. Inform law enf every time that guy knocks on your door. Ask law enf what to say to your neighbor. Restraining orders are often required to prevent escalation. A fake security camera on ceiling plain view at your door. Take pictures of the rock dust on your stuff.
It's all about documentation and communication. Offender living next door is very unfortunate.
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Post by vegasjames on Aug 17, 2015 3:28:58 GMT -5
You can call the cops while you are being followed and they can pull him over on the basis of harassment and intimidation. Once he has been pulled over that should stop everything as the police now have his name and address on record. And if you can tie him to the business owners that can also leave them open to a criminal and/or civil suit.
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Post by captbob on Aug 17, 2015 9:02:47 GMT -5
....
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Post by jakesrocks on Aug 17, 2015 9:20:15 GMT -5
Dang Mel, I thought Texas was an open carry state. blogs.wsj.com/numbers/map-where-is-open-carry-legal-1715/While I have a concealed carry permit, I seldom carry concealed. If I feel the need to carry, I strap it on in plain site. I only got my license because my wife was being followed by some creep when she left work. One time parking beside her car, and meeting her when she came out to her car with my gun in plain site was all it took to convince the guy to find someone else to stalk. (I suppose that the evil grin I gave him didn't hurt either).
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 17, 2015 11:56:48 GMT -5
Don, Texas did pass open carry. Goes into effect Jan 1st I think. I'm not a fan of open carry for several reasons: 1. Takes away the element of surprise 2. Makes non gun folks nervous. They call the cops who do not know if you are a freaking crazy or a good guy. Bad things can occur from there. 3. Easy enough for someone who knows you have a gun to surprise you and take it away for their pwn use and 4. Easy for a hostile to claim you are using the open carry as threat or intimidation and dang hard to prove you are not if it comes to some kind of confrontation.
I way prefer folks to not know I am carrying so they are not nervous and I totally have the advantage of surprise if I need the weapon to defend the lives of me or mine.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by panamark on Aug 17, 2015 16:57:40 GMT -5
Great points Mel Sabre52. My wife saw a guy in Target the other day with a tank top on and an underarm holster on each side. Scared the crap out of her, especially with two barrels pointing back at her as he walked past. That guy is asking for a gun fight. I wish she had called the cops, but she was too scared. As an interesting aside to show how difficult carrying a weapon is: in my self defense class they tried to drill in how important is the decision to draw or not. Life in eminent danger is the criteria. They gave a real example of how complicated this can get in today's litigious society. A person was involved in road rage against them. The person in front of them got out of his car at the stop light and was yelling and raging as he walked back to this armed person's car. The carrying guy in his car pulled his weapon in defense. No shots were fired, but the case was in court for a long time and as I recall the carrying person was convicted of "threatening with a weapon". The raging person said he was just walking back to have an old fashioned argument and he claimed the carrying person escalated it to a life and death situation. Stupid huh? The instructor said if the raging person had shown a weapon or had tried to get in the car or break the windshield or something like that, then drawing the weapon would have been easily justified and defendable. Part of the reason for the "defense of castle" laws was to get away from just such stupid litigation. If you break into my house while I am in it, you can justifiably get killed. Sounds reasonable to me. But in some states the thieves have successfully claimed they had no intent of harm, only robbery, and the homeowner escalated it to life and death. BS. What ever happened to the good old common sense?
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 17, 2015 20:30:16 GMT -5
You know when you take CCW class they always stress that you should carry "all" the time. Very frustrating just how to do that though. I have several comfortable rigs that are really well concealed but there are still so many obstacles. Got to fully undress at the gym when I go in. Can't carry in the post office when I go to mail rocks. Hate to leave a piece in the car. Winters easy, but so dang hot in Texas that you don't like to wear any cloths hardly at all half the year. Constantly have to watch for section 30.06 posting on every store you go to. Places that sell a lot of booze you can't go into etc etc. Hospital is posted if you have a doctor's appointment. If I fired a pistol off my horse, he would definitely booger and probably kill me. Much more complicated than one would think.
Texas does have a good "disparity of force rule" For instance, if you are a beat up ole senior like me and a young punk threatens you, there is a pretty good assumption he could seriously injure you in a physical confrontation so that might justify force in say, a road rage incident but overall, such stuff is a crapshoot and a lot depends on the cops take on the situation. Odd thing is, if you don't carry a cell phone like I don't, a bad guy can try to rob you unsuccessfully, be the first to phone the cops, make up a story and you will be arrested for threatening him with your gun when actually, you were simply protecting yourself. World is strange sometimes..Mel
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Post by captbob on Aug 18, 2015 12:09:39 GMT -5
Should we send out a search party? riverrock, please report in.
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spiritstone
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Member since August 2014
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Post by spiritstone on Aug 18, 2015 13:17:54 GMT -5
Should we send out a search party? riverrock, please report in. Might have to. Didnt i read it said Tony and Tony? In the granite business. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ![](http://i.imgbox.com/6XJNwPEv.jpg)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 17:50:25 GMT -5
Do not take all your valuables home and moat certainly do not set the place on fire. A fire would cause all kinds of investigations....
Fooling around... Never do that.
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Post by orrum on Aug 19, 2015 21:43:47 GMT -5
I was stalked. A friend raises dogs and gave me one. It was a beautiful male Fila Brasilia. End of stalking, LOL. Google them. Chum Lee was a awesome dawg, due to traveling I adopted him back to the person that gave him to me. Had him 3 years, awesome friend he was!!!
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Post by captbob on Aug 20, 2015 12:23:13 GMT -5
*whew* I see riverrock is logged on here. Hope all is well. ETA: Story deleted?
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rockpickerforever
Cave Dweller
RIP Jean Bradley, you are forever loved
Member since July 2011
Posts: 12,069
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Post by rockpickerforever on Aug 20, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
*whew* I see riverrock is logged on here. Hope all is well. ETA: Story deleted? Wonder what happened there? Yes, hope everything is okay...
On another note,
I was stalked. A friend raises dogs and gave me one. It was a beautiful male Fila Brasilia. End of stalking, LOL. Google them. Chum Lee was a awesome dawg, due to traveling I adopted him back to the person that gave him to me. Had him 3 years, awesome friend he was!!! Bill, ya mean one of these? My (late) mom, and their Fila, Belle. Females also very protective. Photo taken probably ten years ago, when she was two years old. She was a little underweight at 130 lbs then. ![](http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc333/jeanatrandjproductsdotcom/Family/mom-n-belle.jpg)
A more recent pic, Feb 2014. Old grey muzzle. She is still kicking. I forget how old she is, but at least 12, maybe more. When younger, she weighed in at about 150, but has thinned down to about 120 in her golden years. ![](http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc333/jeanatrandjproductsdotcom/Family/DSC15151A.jpg)
This dog has had more surgeries, more money spent on vet bills that I have spent on my own healthcare, lol. She is very protective, but I think not of the people in the household, more of the property itself. Although she has bitten somebody while being walked. (I blame my brother for not paying attention, let her get too close to someone.)
Good thing none of the people she has bitten over the years have sued. (Oops, most were friends, invited into the house!) She is not a malicious, vicious bitter, more of a nipper/warner. To the person bitten, it's still a dog bite. And she has broken out the glass in the front bay windows, they've been replaced with polycarbonate. The mailman and UPS driver are both terrified of her AND her bark. Can't understand why, when she is barking and going ballistic at the window, a solicitor will STILL walk up and ring the bell! She is also dog aggressive, so my siblings and I have not been able to bring our dogs over since she has been in residence. Dad is waiting for her to move on to doggy heaven. Said he wants to get a "nice" dog, a golden retriever or yellow lab. (Sister brought this one home as a rescue. Mistake!)
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Post by orrum on Aug 20, 2015 18:13:48 GMT -5
Yep that's the critter Jean. Chum Lee was is a really dark brindle. They usually won't bite and rip, they hold you and if you don't fight and her there is no wound. They hold you until their master gets you loose.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 21, 2015 4:26:00 GMT -5
May be prepping for possible internet investigation. Law enf often has to determine which party is the perpetrator in stalking cases. Computers scrutinized this day and age. Only thing that makes sense.
Any discussion that touches on subjects of aggression will most be construed as negative.
Abuse of stalking laws has become common practice. Stalking in modern terms has become very sensitive and the slightest forward behavior can be construed as stalking activity. By the same token, viscous problem stalking has become a real problem. Law enf has been burned many times by blowing off stalking situations. Not these days. Usually the first one to report wins out. But that fact alone causes people to report stalking, when they are in fact the real stalkers. Using law enf as a tool of retaliation. Law enf caught in the middle, costing much time and effort, tax payers $$$, ha and job security for law enf.
Some of the sheriffs in the crooked county next over have picked up new wife with a house by having an affair w/a married woman. The crooked sheriff coaches her on how separate from her husband, make him angry and perform stalking type behavior. She pins a misdemeanor stalking charge on him. Next time he blinks in her direction he gets felon stalking and restraining order. Felon stalking can result in banishment from the county-yea, where his house, children and job is located. She files for divorce. Sheriff Goodbar moves in. They finally caught the Chief Sheriff having an affair with his secretary. He finally got caught financing their love(business) trips with county funds. Judges, lawyers, jailers, law enf all in on the treachery. Add the bank that the whole entourage used.(illegal loans for their mistresses, etc). Bank shut down now, proving unscrupulous loans very hard to do; need I say more.
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