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Post by captbob on Oct 25, 2015 13:13:49 GMT -5
Awesome setup captbob, proves to me that I need more tumblers. Thank you mevivaIt is addictive! Actually, I only have one 15 pound barrel running at this time. But summer (heat!) is almost over, so they will all get to see action again soon. I usually completely shut down during the summer as the garage gets quite hot. And, clean outs during mosquito season are annoying. I just do this for fun, and the rocks aren't going anywhere. Still planning to build a home made tumbler. Want a 40 lb barrel on the bottom then two more levels going up with two 15 lb barrels on each level. Figure running 5 barrels off one motor and on one stand will be efficient and save space. If nothing else, it will be fun to build.
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Intheswamp
Cave Dweller
Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 25, 2015 13:27:29 GMT -5
I'm a green newbie, but... So far, for a 3# barrel I did 4 tablespoons of coarse for initial charging, then for recharging I used 3 tablespoons. I have not washed my barrels out but rather dump the rocks and most of the slurry out into a bowl leaving the barrel "dirty". I'll then rinse the rocks and inspect them...the slurry that poured out with the rocks I dispose of (remember not to flush it down your drain!!!). Once I place the rocks back in the "dirty" barrel and add any extra rocks to make up for lost volume from grinding (very important...ask me how I know!) I'll add a tablespoon of grit per pound of rocks (3 tablespoons in this case) and appropriate water. My thinking is that the slurry that was left in the bottom and sides of the barrel will help get a slurry started up quicker...I have no personal experience that this happens...maybe I'm just too lazy to wash the barrel out. From my little experience it appears that the second coarse tumble doesn't create quiet as thick of a slurry as the initial tumble does. From what I understand (and it makes sense to me) subsequent stages using finer and finer grit will produce less and less slurry...that's where a fourth ingredient comes in handy...borax, psyillium, red clay, ivory soap flakes, etc.,. The slurry is very important in getting the grit to stick to the rocks which turns each rock into a gritty grinding stone for itself and the other rocks. The Rock Shed is a very good place to order small to large batches of grit from...the really large bags from Kingsley are great deals, too, if you need/want that much. The Rock Shed's shipping calculator is off and they will give the proper shipping cost...they will ship in a FRB for lowest cost. As has been mentioned, order more coarse grit than any other grit. Maybe for more bang for the buck order 46/70? This is all from a newbie so my advice is worth at least as much as you paid for it!
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Intheswamp
Cave Dweller
Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 25, 2015 13:35:39 GMT -5
captbob, that indeed is an awesome setup that you have there!!! I like your idea of multi-level tumblers. I'm hanging on to a piece of my 2x10 board for possible changes down the line on my long tumbler. We'll see. Rob, in tkvancil experiment where he found it better to do a full clean-out *why* was it better? Did it result in a faster grind?...better grind?....
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Post by captbob on Oct 25, 2015 13:38:06 GMT -5
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Post by glennz01 on Oct 25, 2015 13:39:58 GMT -5
I can say that all the tumblers I operated from my ar-12 to my c-40 shift to a side. The screwdriver helps. the best thing I notices was once the rubber things start wearing groves into the rubber it will help a little bit. However the barrels are always trying to move outward. I'm not exactly sure why.
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 25, 2015 15:43:41 GMT -5
I'm a green newbie, but... So far, for a 3# barrel I did 4 tablespoons of coarse for initial charging, then for recharging I used 3 tablespoons. I have not washed my barrels out but rather dump the rocks and most of the slurry out into a bowl leaving the barrel "dirty". I'll then rinse the rocks and inspect them...the slurry that poured out with the rocks I dispose of (remember not to flush it down your drain!!!). Once I place the rocks back in the "dirty" barrel and add any extra rocks to make up for lost volume from grinding (very important...ask me how I know!) I'll add a tablespoon of grit per pound of rocks (3 tablespoons in this case) and appropriate water. My thinking is that the slurry that was left in the bottom and sides of the barrel will help get a slurry started up quicker...I have no personal experience that this happens...maybe I'm just too lazy to wash the barrel out. From my little experience it appears that the second coarse tumble doesn't create quiet as thick of a slurry as the initial tumble does. From what I understand (and it makes sense to me) subsequent stages using finer and finer grit will produce less and less slurry...that's where a fourth ingredient comes in handy...borax, psyillium, red clay, ivory soap flakes, etc.,. The slurry is very important in getting the grit to stick to the rocks which turns each rock into a gritty grinding stone for itself and the other rocks. The Rock Shed is a very good place to order small to large batches of grit from...the really large bags from Kingsley are great deals, too, if you need/want that much. The Rock Shed's shipping calculator is off and they will give the proper shipping cost...they will ship in a FRB for lowest cost. As has been mentioned, order more coarse grit than any other grit. Maybe for more bang for the buck order 46/70? This is all from a newbie so my advice is worth at least as much as you paid for it! Thanks for all the info! I especially like your first part about how you go about recharging, that is the kind of detail I am looking for.
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Intheswamp
Cave Dweller
Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 25, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5
Thanks captbob. That was a good read. It makes me wonder about my partial clean-out...I dump everything out, slurry and rock, but leave the inside of the barrel dirty. I rinse off the rocks, return to barrel, add rocks and grit, and continue the tumble. Ah well, maybe I'll go the completely clean clean-out route, maybe I'll keep with the dirty barrel technique...only the phantom knows!
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 26, 2015 14:08:39 GMT -5
Hey again. So I have gone back and revised my setup (thanks for your help everyone). So now I have the tumbler elevated over a plastic tub. It's sitting on two folded towels and a rubber platform. How does it look? I know the tumbler does not look centered but that's the best I could get it to stay. I wouldn't say it's reduced the noise at all but I think if there is ever a spill I am much more prepared. Are the towels a fire hazard to be so close to the motor? I know it's thermally protected but I still worry with running a machine 24/7. So prior to creating this setup, the barrels eventually did drift off course again and begin to rub against the white discs. I took it as an opportunity to readjust everything and create this setup. Now that I have it on this rig the leveling is much more difficult. As you can see I have the screwdriver under there but it's not quite working out. I got it to the point where the barrel on the right is perfectly centered and the barrel on the left is lightly rubbing against the keeper disc (strange..). I'm not sure how big of an issue this is but honestly i'm just burnt out on readjusting the shim and barrels. I don't want to spend 30 minutes trying to balance it out every day. I'm hoping to hear from someone who has experience with this and has found it is ok that the barrel and disc are rubbing lightly. Will it get worse? Did your barrels wear out? I know some have seen it really grind down on the rubber and ruin the barrel or it gets caught and thrown off the track. I'm wondering if it's only lightly hitting it that I won't have issues. Thanks all!
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Post by captbob on Oct 26, 2015 14:32:49 GMT -5
I wouldn't have expected a noise reduction unless the tumbler was rattling on the wood floor.
Regarding the towel, I wouldn't think it is a fire hazard, but I might not bet my house on that. One thing about the towels is that they are not a permanent stable platform. Towels will move as you fiddle with the barrels. Seems that would make it hard to find an exact sweet spot where you are happy with the roll of the barrels, as the towel will always be changing.
Rubbing against the white "keeper" disc shouldn't be a problem if black rubber isn't wearing off. That's what they are there for. Have you tried elevating the back slightly instead of adjusting from the side?
Just a note on when you oil the shafts. The black rubber rollers don't react well to oil. Try to keep them oil free.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 26, 2015 14:55:37 GMT -5
I have a tumbler like yours, but it's fairly new and I haven't used it much. My other double three pound tumbler is a Lortone 33b. It has a little white plastic thing on each end that the barrels rub against if they drift to one end. I used to spend time shimming the ends to try to center it, but eventually I gave up. They always rub against one end. They've been going for almost four years with no harm done. The plastic thingy is worn down some, but that's all. With the the Lortone, the lid is metal so it might be worse for the Thumlers. When I have run mine, it drifts to an end and I haven't worried about it. I do need to get a spill pan for mine though. I hear those lids are a lot less reliable than the Lortone lids.
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 26, 2015 15:14:53 GMT -5
I have a tumbler like yours, but it's fairly new and I haven't used it much. My other double three pound tumbler is a Lortone 33b. It has a little white plastic thing on each end that the barrels rub against if they drift to one end. I used to spend time shimming the ends to try to center it, but eventually I gave up. They always rub against one end. They've been going for almost four years with no harm done. The plastic thingy is worn down some, but that's all. With the the Lortone, the lid is metal so it might be worse for the Thumlers. When I have run mine, it drifts to an end and I haven't worried about it. I do need to get a spill pan for mine though. I hear those lids are a lot less reliable than the Lortone lids. Interesting, thanks for chiming in. I will leave it like this for a while and see what kind of issues it causes for the barrel. It does look like there is some black residue on the white disc and the barrel is slightly smoother where it's hitting. I wonder if it smooths out enough it'll just coast against it rather than grinding. captbob Thanks, yeah I'll try it without the towels and see if there is a noise difference. If not I'll just use them for something else! I'll see if elevating the back helps the balance at all.
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indiana
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 285
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Post by indiana on Oct 26, 2015 17:53:17 GMT -5
Oh wow, all the $$$ are really starting to add up in my head haha. as well as the time! I see what you mean regarding the tumbling time, if you want them very round you have to expect to put in much more time. it's just strange i've never heard that it could take two months. How often do you recharg the grit during that period typically? Thanks again for the additional tips, the more the merrier. Hugely appreciated. Hi from a fellow noob. I've only finished 2 batches, but I found out quick step 1 is a killer. I started off thinking I was going to be able to do nice, neat, discreet batches, but I've kind of fallen into the idea of a perpetual batch in step 1. Every week now, I clean out the step 1 barrel, remove the rocks that are ready to move on and replace them with new ones. I know a few of the rocks have been in there for a month! I'm keeping a couple of coffee cans of "ready for step 2" rocks. I'm trying to decide now how to proceed. I have the capacity to run 7, 3lb barrels at once. I'm thinking three step 1 barrels, two step 2's and two polish barrels would make a nice balance. I guess you've heard of the idea of using some barrels that are for polish only. I don't know if it's really necessary, but I like the idea and see the wisdom in it.
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indiana
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 285
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Post by indiana on Oct 26, 2015 17:56:37 GMT -5
Oh wow, all the $$$ are really starting to add up in my head haha. as well as the time! I see what you mean regarding the tumbling time, if you want them very round you have to expect to put in much more time. it's just strange i've never heard that it could take two months. How often do you recharg the grit during that period typically? Thanks again for the additional tips, the more the merrier. Hugely appreciated. Hi from a fellow noob. I've only finished 2 batches, but I found out quick that step 1 is a killer (well not that quick, it took a couple of weeks ha ha). I started off thinking I was going to be able to do nice, neat, discreet batches, but I've kind of fallen into the idea of a perpetual batch in step 1. Every week now, I clean out the step 1 barrel, remove the rocks that are ready to move on and replace them with new ones. I know a few of the rocks have been in there for a month! I'm keeping a couple of coffee cans of "ready for step 2" rocks. I'm trying to decide now how to proceed. I have the capacity to run 7, 3lb barrels at once. I'm thinking three step 1 barrels, two step 2's and two polish barrels would make a nice balance. I guess you've heard of the idea of using some barrels that are for polish only. I don't know if it's really necessary, but I like the idea and see the wisdom in it.
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Post by captbob on Oct 26, 2015 18:01:50 GMT -5
I'm trying to decide now how to proceed. I have the capacity to run 7, 3lb barrels at once. I'm thinking three step 1 barrels, two step 2's and two polish barrels would make a nice balance. You are running more than two "steps" of grit before you move to polish aren't you? What grit is your step 2?
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indiana
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2015
Posts: 285
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Post by indiana on Oct 26, 2015 18:10:59 GMT -5
Good catch! Yes, I should have said two barrels for either step 2 or 3, then two dedicated for polish.
I'm running as follows. Step 1 = 60 grit, step 2 = 120/220, step three = 500 grit aluminum oxide and step 4 = ultra fine aluminum oxide.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 26, 2015 20:48:53 GMT -5
Hi from a fellow noob. I've only finished 2 batches, but I found out quick that step 1 is a killer (well not that quick, it took a couple of weeks ha ha). I started off thinking I was going to be able to do nice, neat, discreet batches, but I've kind of fallen into the idea of a perpetual batch in step 1. Every week now, I clean out the step 1 barrel, remove the rocks that are ready to move on and replace them with new ones. I know a few of the rocks have been in there for a month! I'm keeping a couple of coffee cans of "ready for step 2" rocks. I'm trying to decide now how to proceed. I have the capacity to run 7, 3lb barrels at once. I'm thinking three step 1 barrels, two step 2's and two polish barrels would make a nice balance. I guess you've heard of the idea of using some barrels that are for polish only. I don't know if it's really necessary, but I like the idea and see the wisdom in it. Hmm, yeah im wondering what I should do since i have 3 barrels and one tumbler. i'd like to do continuous loads but i don't think i have enough equiptment to do that. but that means ill have to put some rocks aside for a while to wait their turn. any other ideas are welcome.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Oct 26, 2015 21:48:15 GMT -5
I have a cabinet full of rocks set aside for later steps. I don't mind mixing most rocks (not obsidian) in rough stage, but I like to keep them separated in later steps if I have enough for a whole batch. My Lot-O finishes a batch in a little over a week. I have two six pound barrels and two three pound barrels going all the time. Most of the time the Lot-O sets idle. If I was you, I'd keep one barrel for polish, maybe one barrel for other stages, and run as much rough rock in stage one as I had room for. Stage one takes forever.
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 26, 2015 23:31:12 GMT -5
I have a cabinet full of rocks set aside for later steps. I don't mind mixing most rocks (not obsidian) in rough stage, but I like to keep them separated in later steps if I have enough for a whole batch. My Lot-O finishes a batch in a little over a week. I have two six pound barrels and two three pound barrels going all the time. Most of the time the Lot-O sets idle. If I was you, I'd keep one barrel for polish, maybe one barrel for other stages, and run as much rough rock in stage one as I had room for. Stage one takes forever. Gotcha, so just keep one that basically runs stage one stones all the time. makes sense! thanks man.
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Post by captbob on Oct 27, 2015 0:46:13 GMT -5
If you have an extra barrel, I would set it aside for polish only. Mark it with some blue painters tape or something.
With a dedicated polish barrel you will save yourself some time from having to clean your grit barrel(s) out super well before going to polish.
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br347213
starting to spend too much on rocks
Henderson, NV
Member since October 2015
Posts: 106
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Post by br347213 on Oct 27, 2015 1:04:31 GMT -5
If you have an extra barrel, I would set it aside for polish only. Mark it with some blue painters tape or something. With a dedicated polish barrel you will save yourself some time from having to clean your grit barrel(s) out super well before going to polish. Yep, that's the plan!
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