Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 5, 2015 20:07:38 GMT -5
Hi all, I need some advice on the best methods for splitting stones without a cutoff saw. I recently acquired a large batch of Mexican lace (like my avatar pic to the left) and other agates for tumbling. Some of the pieces are the size of a large lemon or small apple. My tumblers are Lortone QT66s and 33B's and cannot handle stones that size. I do have a cutoff saw, but it is a small Ameritool 4 inch and there's no way it would touch those stones. That leaves me with my new 2 inch wide chisel, a hammer, and a 4 inch vise, ... no anvil other than the 2x2 pad on the back of the vise. What is my best bet for splitting the stones without making them into hammer dust? With agates, is it best to try and chisel split them along layer lines? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by glennz01 on Nov 5, 2015 21:29:15 GMT -5
Look for cracks in the stones... the cracks may be healed (replaced with minerals). Those are usually the weakest parts of the stone... Or theres always buying a cheap tile saw.
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Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 5, 2015 21:48:26 GMT -5
... Or theres always buying a cheap tile saw. Hmmm ... I had heard somewhere that tile saws aren't really good for rocks. Is that not the case? I planned on buying a good 8 inch cutoff saw at some point, but who knows when that'll happen. Meanwhile I need to reduce these rocks. Thanks.
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Post by catmandewe on Nov 5, 2015 21:52:03 GMT -5
A cheap 7 or 10" tile saw would be your best bet. It is good enough for what you are doing and you will have some cool shapes to tumble when you get finished.
Tony
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Nov 5, 2015 21:55:32 GMT -5
Send it to me. Yesterday, after acheiving the start of a final polish on some jaspar bookends, I Rinsed off a piece from the lap, and as i carried it out to a drying spot, it jumped from my hands and split in two almost perfect 1/2's. Sooooo bummed.
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Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 6, 2015 1:14:12 GMT -5
A cheap 7 or 10" tile saw would be your best bet. It is good enough for what you are doing and you will have some cool shapes to tumble when you get finished. Tony Well I'll be switched. I found 7", 3/4 HP wet saws, (the QEP 650XT) locally and online for $99 or less. That's sure a lot more powerful than my 4" Ameritool. If I could easily trim junk spots off of my rough before tumbling I'd be stoked. Throw in cutting larger pieces in half and I'm a happy camper. I'll check that out. Thanks.
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Post by glennz01 on Nov 6, 2015 3:16:23 GMT -5
A cheap 7 or 10" tile saw would be your best bet. It is good enough for what you are doing and you will have some cool shapes to tumble when you get finished. Tony Well I'll be switched. I found 7", 3/4 HP wet saws, (the QEP 650XT) locally and online for $99 or less. That's sure a lot more powerful than my 4" Ameritool. If I could easily trim junk spots off of my rough before tumbling I'd be stoked. Throw in cutting larger pieces in half and I'm a happy camper. I'll check that out. Thanks. Ive got that saw... it works decent although it takes a while if you are cutting thick stuff... If it were me i'd get the rigid as it has more power and a lifetime warrenty.. also a 7 inch has 2 inches of cutting thickness with a 7 inch qep table top saw
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2015 6:45:05 GMT -5
Waxy agates are easy to split up with a very small hammer using higher speed impacts. Best if hammer is soft steel. Crazy lace better sawn. Grainy materials better if sawn. Flint knappers have ways of breaking rock down, again most of the rocks they work with are waxy or 'knappable'. About half of Rio Grande agates break clean with a small hammer.(Rio's are a wide variety of agates) And the Rio varieties that do break with a hammer are usually the better silicifications and higher grade material.
Well shaped rough makes tumbling quicker and yield better end results. Personally, I prefer to tumble rocks that break easy with a hammer. If you have a large source of raw, like material local in large quantities, over collect and break a lot-pick the best and trash the rest.
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Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 6, 2015 13:13:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. Please define "a while" and "thick stuff"? I am used to my Ameritool 4 inch which really doesn't cut much of any sized stone. It's really meant for cutting thin cabochons. If it was even an inch thick jasper nugget, I'd be standing there most of the day to the point that I just gave up using it for anything but knocking off tiny corners. Even glass was a chore to cut. The 1/4 HP and 0.030 thick blade is just not enough for cutting tumbling rough. So from my limited experience perspective, a 3/4 HP 7 inch seems like a monster by comparison and it's 1/3 the cost of the Ameritool (ironic). So if "a while" equates to less than "hours" then I'm ahead of the game. I found a Rigid R4020 at Home Depot for $189. Aside from the 1-1/4 HP being almost twice the power, is there anything else to justify twice the price? Thanks.
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Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2015 13:25:35 GMT -5
Don't know where you are Enigman, but any decent sized town will have a pawn shop and a city will have hundreds of them. Might want to check a few pawn shops if you have the spare time. I needed a tile saw when I built a swimming pool for my dogs and found a good unit at a local pawn shop, which Home Depot also carried. The one at the pawn shop was well less than half price. Bought it for 60 bucks and when I was finished using it I took it back and got 30 bucks for selling it back to them. Was cheaper than renting one.
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Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 6, 2015 13:55:03 GMT -5
Don't know where you are Enigman, but any decent sized town will have a pawn shop and a city will have hundreds of them. Might want to check a few pawn shops if you have the spare time. In my neck of the woods in Southern California, pawn shops are non-existant unless I am willing to drive waaaaay waaaay outside the "planned communities". The gas expense searching for or driving to a shop that had one would outweigh the savings. I have shopped used online and the only half decent ones I find are people selling "store returns". Most of those amount to machines that were purchased, entire tile jobs were cut, and then the saw was returned to the store as "defective". (Reprehesicus Maximus) The rest are open box missing parts. By the time I replace the rusted out blades or missing parts and add shipping, I'm back up to the price of a new machine a block away at Home Depot. Non Compus Usedicus. Newus Maximus Sensicus. Thanks.
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Post by txrockhunter on Nov 6, 2015 17:03:03 GMT -5
If speed is more important than precision. I have found the segmented blade, on my $79 HD tile saw, to work very well. If I am cutting rocks to throw in the tumbler, this type of blade really speeds up the process. It can chip some material like opalized wood, but seams to do really well on most agates. Like anything else, it may not be ideal, but it works for me. Good Luck!!!
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Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
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Post by Enigman on Nov 6, 2015 18:58:42 GMT -5
If speed is more important than precision. I have found the segmented blade, on my $79 HD tile saw, to work very well. If I am cutting rocks to throw in the tumbler, this type of blade really speeds up the process. Thanks for the info. Speed is important in the sense that I don't want to stand there all day cutting stones. I'm just curious. These blades all say "Wet/Dry". Has anyone ever tried to use such a blade in a traditional non-water friendly dry table saw and just cut the stones dry? I have a monster-strong 10" table saw that will mount one of these blades, but what happens if you cut stones? Does the heat ruin the blade, stones burst into flames along with your hand, or what? Thanks.
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bsky4463
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2013
Posts: 1,696
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Post by bsky4463 on Nov 7, 2015 8:35:14 GMT -5
I don't want to stand there all day cutting stones... Perspective is funny...I dream of the time when I can stand there all day cutn stones...just sayn. Cheers
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Nov 7, 2015 11:33:15 GMT -5
If speed is more important than precision. I have found the segmented blade, on my $79 HD tile saw, to work very well. If I am cutting rocks to throw in the tumbler, this type of blade really speeds up the process. Thanks for the info. Speed is important in the sense that I don't want to stand there all day cutting stones. I'm just curious. These blades all say "Wet/Dry". Has anyone ever tried to use such a blade in a traditional non-water friendly dry table saw and just cut the stones dry? I have a monster-strong 10" table saw that will mount one of these blades, but what happens if you cut stones? Does the heat ruin the blade, stones burst into flames along with your hand, or what? Thanks. The issues cutting dry are two fold. The dust created from cutting the rocks can be toxic. Silica in the lungs is NO GOOD. Secondly the fine particles can easily get into the saws bearings eventually ruining them. I have the QEP 7" and it does a decent job prepping rough. With some practice you can roll larger rocks through a get a decent cut. It will throw a lot of water at you if you stand on the front side. You'll want a rain poncho or learn to cut from the back side pulling through rather than pushing through. In any case wear a dust mask. Safety first.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Nov 7, 2015 12:20:24 GMT -5
Not for splitting, but for shaping. Takes about 3 hours to reduce tumble time 6 weeks on 12 pounds of rock.
Video is of making a sphere like shape. Quicker on odd shapes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 16:28:04 GMT -5
What is the dimpled sheet toughing the axle for?
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cdfcal
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2011
Posts: 59
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Post by cdfcal on Nov 14, 2015 11:05:04 GMT -5
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