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Post by mohs on Nov 25, 2015 18:55:13 GMT -5
Well my question is not exactly about buffing tips although I'll take all the advice I can get its something I haven't mastered although I making progress
but what I'd like to know is when will a hard stone (say an agate) start taking a polish or even a buff ?
I always thought at 600 grit stage a stone should start polishing/buff ? the other day I tried to buff a stone at that stage and nothing would take not until I took it to 3000 grit-- did a buff come up.
didn't old school lapidaries stop at 600 grit? matter of fact wasn't that the finest grit they had? they had some fine buffs
please share your ideas on buffing techniques...
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 25, 2015 19:37:50 GMT -5
Dang Ed, I thought you were old enough to know that trick. LOL. Old school lapidaries would use a worn out 600 grit SC belt for pre polish. Basically a 1200 grit belt.
I sometimes still use one.
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Post by mohs on Nov 25, 2015 20:00:47 GMT -5
well here the deal Don and this may be key when I buff a rock'n heart I careful not to get it hot
so perhaps a good pre-polish on worn out 600 may be sufficient to get a buff up if you get the rock hot?
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 25, 2015 20:07:30 GMT -5
Use them with water, just like you would with a good belt. It should keep your hearts cool enough not to worry about your epoxy glue line.
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 25, 2015 20:12:41 GMT -5
If it feels like your heart is starting to warm up, crank up the water a little bit.
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Post by mohs on Nov 25, 2015 20:13:52 GMT -5
so you agree Don that heat is key to a potentially good buff on a hard stone?
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 25, 2015 21:10:49 GMT -5
On agate & other hard stones, a certain amount of heat is needed to get a good shine. From what I've read on the subject, heat is only generated at the point of contact between the stone & wheel or belt. Everything outside of that point is cooler. I think that by using a worn out belt, you can reach that heat without effecting your epoxy joint. You might need to practice a little bit on a couple pieces of scrap agate epoxied together to get a feel for it.
There was an article many years ago on the subject of heat flow polishing. I believe it was in a R&G mag back in the late 80's or early 90's. According to the article, the heat generated at the point of contact was great enough to make the rock molecules flow, leaving a glass shine behind. Using water coolant, anything outside of the point of contact was quickly cooled.
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Post by Pat on Nov 25, 2015 21:12:59 GMT -5
@edmohs good question!! Hope some others chime in.
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Post by mohs on Nov 25, 2015 22:15:30 GMT -5
Thanks Don-- interesting! I think it would be wise before we get to deep into this to define what polish is compared to buff. polish is all the sanding steps buffing is done with some sort of powder (or diamond paste) done on a non abrasive pad or wheel...
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Post by mohs on Nov 25, 2015 22:21:59 GMT -5
I will have to try the experiment. Cut a cab of agate and sand it at the various grit stages and see at what stage a buff start to show.
I'm sure some other members have already done this hope they add their comments...
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 25, 2015 22:47:49 GMT -5
I recall a debate here or on facebook regarding the heat flow hypothesis. I believe the general feeling of the majority is that it was BS.
I refer to sanding as sanding, up to like 600/1200 grit, the rest of the process I call polishing. To me buffing is using a cloth to get rid of fingerprints and whatnot to get something previously polished to shine again.
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Post by mohs on Nov 26, 2015 10:02:36 GMT -5
good point Lee I probably have my terminology wrong I'm goin to change the subject line...
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Post by radio on Nov 27, 2015 1:13:10 GMT -5
For many, many years I used an Elk hide on a padded 12 inch wheel with cerium oxide for the final polish. To me, buffing is also a delicate touchup unless in an automotive application where one uses a buffer with wax or polish on the paint
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Post by mohs on Dec 17, 2015 22:12:12 GMT -5
O.K now I got a question for the polishing experts tell us your dirty little secrets ha ha
I'm using 8000 diamond paste on felt wet or dry?
what about ZAM on felt? wet or dry?
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Post by stoner on Dec 19, 2015 2:15:27 GMT -5
My opinion is this: You shape your cab on the hard wheels, the 280, 600, and 1200 is for refining/taking flat spots out, and polish is 3000 and up. This is based on using diamond wheels. As far as heat, that only works for jade. Jade has to run hot to remove the orange peel surface. I polish all my cabs with 50k and 100k diamond paste on a leather belt, I haven't met a stone yet I couldn't polish. Diamond paste is no fuss, no muss, no wetting the belt with oxide polishes. When the polish belt doesn't seem to work anymore, I just spray it with silicone and it's like new again.
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Post by MrP on Dec 19, 2015 8:17:11 GMT -5
My opinion is this: You shape your cab on the hard wheels, the 280, 600, and 1200 is for refining/taking flat spots out, and polish is 3000 and up. This is based on using diamond wheels. As far as heat, that only works for jade. Jade has to run hot to remove the orange peel surface. I polish all my cabs with 50k and 100k diamond paste on a leather belt, I haven't met a stone yet I couldn't polish. Diamond paste is no fuss, no muss, no wetting the belt with oxide polishes. When the polish belt doesn't seem to work anymore, I just spray it with silicone and it's like new again. stoner and just what do you know about making cabs?
When I go to RTH I always go to Recent Posts and try to go back to where I left off. That being said I am starting at the bottom of a post of cabs. There are some amazing cabers on this form but I can always pick out your cabs before I see that you were the one who made them.
Believe what stoner says because I think he has the best cabs. Others are very close, but I think his quality shows. IMHO..............................MrP
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Post by mohs on Dec 19, 2015 9:18:14 GMT -5
right on stoner I've never bumped up the polishing paste from 8000 apparently going higher as you do makes a big difference obviously having a scratch & flat free, smooth cab, in the previous sanding steps is essential for those blistering shine of yours so what the next step after 8000? 15,000 and then...
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Post by mohs on Dec 19, 2015 9:19:05 GMT -5
o yeah and I forgot about the silicone spray
Thanks!
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