rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Dec 14, 2015 22:14:26 GMT -5
I'm going to just organize these questions for better readability. Question One- Would a normal harbor freight vibe work like a rock vibe? If not, I would like to know why... question Two- I'm considering doing 3 DIY tumblers from spare plastic paint cans.. (It's some sort of hard plastic, ) Would paint cans work? And what other parts would I need? Question Three- MY ROCKS ARENT SHINING! My first batch of mixed jasper and agate came out beautiful. But my second mixed batch, a mix of one agate, 3 geodes, and about the rest was granite and it came out.. Well.. Very unshiny, in fact, the rocks had the same color as they did before tumbling. The one agate had severe cracks throughout. So.. What do I do? I've tired burnishing them for 5-6 hours, with very little effect. The granite came out the best really.. It might've been I put to much water in? And the granite didn't even look all that good. I had high hopes for what somebody identified as a "red moss agate" bit now I don't think that's what it is... Help!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 15, 2015 15:52:25 GMT -5
I don't know much about Harbor Freight vibe tumblers. There are vibe tumblers designed for tumbling casings for people who reload their own shells. Those type of tumblers are not designed for the weight of rocks. I've never heard much good about Harbor Freight's rotary tumblers though. There are a couple people here who use them, but lots of people have reported that they don't hold up long. I'd save your money up to buy either a Lot-O or a Thumblers rock tumbler (not a Thumblers tumbler for reloading).
I have not built my own tumbler, but many here have. Some use commercial barrels on them and others use barrels made from PVC pipe. PVC barrels are louder, so if you're running it in your house, that might be a bad idea. There are lots of threads on building your own tumbler if you do a little searching. Plastic paint cans will not hold up.
I have no idea why your rocks didn't come out shiny. Do you have pictures? Can you tell us exactly what you did with them? Agates and jaspers are easy to tumble. Other rocks are not. Granite usually gets shiny, but undercuts. The black parts usually wear more so that there are little crevices and those parts don't get shiny. Mixing rock of different hardness can cause problems. Burnishing won't shine dull rocks. It might make shiny rocks more shiny.
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Dec 15, 2015 17:10:19 GMT -5
rj, Rock tumbling can be very frustrating, on a good day. If you are new to tumbling, I do not recommend starting with homemade equipment. If you are handy, you might try building a rotary tumbler, but at a minimum I would use commercially manufactured barrels. There is a reason companies don't sell pvc pipe, go-kart tires and buckets for tumbling rocks- don't try reinventing the wheel. You need all the encouragement you can get in the beginning- screwing around with mickey-mouse homemade junk is not way. Of course I'm old, unimaginative and impatient, so what do I know?
In the beginning you need to minimize the variables. Try tumbling only loads of agate to start with, and keep good records of what you are doing. You'll figure it out!
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Shelbeeray
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2006
Posts: 688
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Post by Shelbeeray on Dec 15, 2015 17:22:53 GMT -5
I'd suggest not putting in geodes...they can trap grit, even if you don't think you see it. All it takes is one piece. What grits did you use? How many stages? What pre-polish and polish are you using?
I burnish over night and then run a couple of rinse cycles between stages. I always add beads in pre and polish. If only one agate came out fractured, the tumbling process probably exposed microfractures. I also like to keep rock types together...agates and jaspers are usually good together, but depends on what they specifically are as some can contain features that undercut. granite I do alone because like JugglerGuy said, the mica tends to undercut...depends on if you have granite, granitidorite and the composition and ratio of the rocks' makeup.
I'd get tumbling figured out before building a tumbler, simply because then you'll know what you want and what works for you. There is a section on the board for homemade stuff. You'll get some solid advice there.
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meviva
Cave Dweller
Member since July 2013
Posts: 1,474
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Post by meviva on Dec 15, 2015 21:30:24 GMT -5
Don't get the Harbor Freight vibe. I got one and it broke with my first batch. Now I have an Ultra Vibe 10mb, it has a 4 lb bowl. I have a Lortone QT66 for the rough stage, and it takes a while to have enough ready to start a batch in the vibe.
Andrea
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Dec 16, 2015 1:14:42 GMT -5
There is a huge difference between a "mickey-mouse homemade junk" tumbler and a homemader that is well planned. I've never bought one, I built all 3 of our routinely used sets, and we get compliments on our tumble quality from everyone that sees our stuff. That being said, the learning curve to get the quality is pretty huge.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 7:38:51 GMT -5
There is a huge difference between a "mickey-mouse homemade junk" tumbler and a homemader that is well planned. I've never bought one, I built all 3 of our routinely used sets, and we get compliments on our tumble quality from everyone that sees our stuff. That being said, the learning curve to get the quality is pretty huge. couldnt agree more I have a pvc barrel that I'd put up against any store bought one,hopefully our resident tumbling engineer(Jamesp)will chime in. Dave
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Dec 16, 2015 8:14:21 GMT -5
I got started with an Ebay thin wall PVC barrel(SDR 35 PVC pipe and fittings). It wore through in 3 months. So I built my own out of heavier sch 40 PVC as others have. Different game, the sch 40 barrels are looking at their 4th year running full time. As Rob mentioned, they are noisier than rubber/vinyl barrels. As long as you spin them at the right speed they are like any other rotary tumbler. I did get a Harbor vibe, it is not worthy of much. Maybe shell casings. Rock vibes and metal vibes vibrate at different rates/amplitudes ?. Metal vibes usually too violent for rocks. Tell us you method/machine rjbud1
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Dec 16, 2015 17:57:43 GMT -5
This is the same method as my first batch (batch one came out beautiful) as the second batch... (Second batch was the bad stones) I go to a river, lake, or sometimes just fish out a really nice stone from my front yard. (Got some nice granite, as well as what somebody identified as "moss agate" from an old box in my garage.
I.) I take some spare thumlers tumbler grit, and put my rocks into it. I pour the small packet of Coarse Grit into the tumbler barrel of my Thumlers AR 1, as well as some soap and water, and let it go for 7-8 days. 7-8 Days Later II.) I take the rocks outside my house, pour the stuff into a jar with holes in it. (In this case, I kept the fine and coarse grit for reusing) . Upon inspection, I take any severely fractured/cracked/broken rocks. In the case of mostly solid geodes, If they break open I throw me into the woods. These were small gedes no bigger than a quarter. Only one of three turned out with no fractures. I then put my newly polished rocks into the AR-1 again, pour in soap and water, as well as Fine Grit. I then let it sit for 7 days. 7 Days Later III.) Same process, of taking the rocks and putting them in a plastic jar with tiny holes to let the water or any other grit to drain out. (I do this over a large aluminum cup from a festival.) Inspection time. Upon seeing no fractures, I put them in with soap and water along with the prepolish. The rocks were starting to have a slight shine. I let it go for another 7-8 days. 7-8 Days Later IV.) The same process, except I don't save the grit. I take the rocks out, pour em over the jar with tiny holes, dry them off, and put in the typical soap and water, with the polis stage grit. Let it go for 7 days. 7 Days later. Rocks are "done" and look like what they did before even before tumbling. And Yes, I cleaned the barrel throughly EVERY TIME.
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Dec 16, 2015 18:01:25 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Dec 16, 2015 19:05:59 GMT -5
The first batch does look fine. Maybe you have softer rocks in the second batch that are not easy to polish.
You rounded them well. Sure you ran them long enough in steps 2,3,4 ?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 16, 2015 19:11:11 GMT -5
Ok, that helps a bit. First off, you're tumbling completely different rocks. Agates and jaspers are easy to polish, but granite is not. Your granite undercut like most granite does. The softer black mica doesn't hold up well in a tumbler. The other parts should polish though.
You didn't say how much grit you're using, but I'm assuming the packs came with your tumbler and are pre-measured. Did you happen to reuse grit from the first batch? There's no point in saving coarse, fine, or pre-polish grit unless it's to thicken your slurry. Grit breaks down to smaller grit as it tumbles. After a week it's pretty much worn out. I never save any grit for any purpose. Some people like to thicken their slurry with it, I don't think that helps anything. I have heard that you can save and reuse your polish, but I don't think it's worth the bother. Then again, I'm using a vibratory tumbler for my polish stage and it only takes a half teaspoon. If I was using several tablespoons, I might feel differently.
Normally, beginning tumblers don't leave their rocks in the first stage for nearly long enough. You only mentioned leaving them in for a week. Most of the time my rocks stay in the first stage for several weeks or months. You might be able to get away with this since you're using river rounded rocks, but I still do rounded rocks for several weeks until they look pretty close to perfect. I do a clean out every week and take out rocks that are done and replace them with more rough rocks. My first stage is never done, because I just keep adding more rocks. I only start the second stage when I've accumulated enough rocks to fill the barrel. Your rocks didn't look too bad though.
Your problem could possibly be contamination. You said that you washed the barrel out between each stage, but how about the rocks? I know you rinsed them, but were they really, really clean? If you have any rocks in there with holes in them (like possibly your geodes), grit can get trapped in the holes and then come out during the next stage. That will mess up the whole batch. That's one of the reasons why I make sure my rocks have all holes removed before taking them out of the first stage.
How full are you filling your barrel with rocks? How much water are you using? How much grit are you putting in?
You'll get the hang of this. Just keep asking questions and we'll help you figure it out.
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Dec 16, 2015 20:55:07 GMT -5
How full? About 1 and a half lbs full. It holds at least 3 lbs.. But I only did 1 1/2 lbs for the reason of too many rocks. How much water? I filled it to 3/4 the barrel, and a few squirts of soap. How much grit? The entire bag. It's was a fairly small bag, a picture of a bag exactly like it is on this post (I threw the old bags away). The geodes? There was one solid geode left. All the others had cracked open after stage one, and they were quarter sized, and in 20 pieces so more or less they went into the woods. The grit? Yes. It was indeed with the tumbler when I Bought it. The grit? No, I did not reuse the previous grit, I just got back into the tumbler hobby... After about 4 years. 4 years ago, I did the first batch. I picked rocks from my yard, rivers, lakes and a few from school (don't tell ?) for batch TWO. How many weeks? I have a few agates and pet wood here at my house, just got them a few days ago. 2lbs Lakers, 2lbs Pet wood, 1 lbs light blue Brazil agate, and a few orangish/yellowish/reddish Brazil agates. Also a batch of pudding stone. Some tiger eye and lapis lazuli. I'll be starting on them after Christmas, because I go on a two week long trip to Pennslyvanna for family visit. (That reminds me, I have a cabin in the Pocono Mnts., what rocks do they have there)? So I would like to know how long they should be in the stages.. Vibe Tumbler? What is the best non-expensive vibe? (I'm talking $150 and under... I don't have a lot of money.) Below: The bag I'm talking about.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 16, 2015 21:37:38 GMT -5
I have a Thumler's AR-1 and also a Lortone 33b that has the same size barrels. I've used the Lortone a lot more, but they are very similar tumblers. I have never weighed any rocks that I've tumbled. This has been discussed here before and I think the consensus is that when you get the rocks and water in, it's usually over three pounds. I wouldn't worry about it. What's more important is that you fill it about 2/3 full. If it's too empty, the rocks crash around more and they're more likely to be cracked or chipped. I use a lot less water than is recommended. I put 1/2 cup in a tumbler of that size. 3/4 full is way too much in my opinion. I use 3-4 tablespoons of coarse grit in a tumbler that size. Coarse grit can be 80, 60/90, or 46/70. Some people use even coarser grit. I do all stages after this in my Lot-O vibratory tumbler. Someone with more rotary experience can advise you better on how much grit to use for the other stages. You can also use plastic pellets or ceramic media in later stages to protect your rocks from damage. I would recommend either a Lot-O or a Thumlers vibe. I have a Lot-O and I love it. It cost about $200 from The Rock Shed. I know that's over your budget, but save up and get something that will last. I chose the Lot-O because it has a smallish barrel. The rough stage takes me a long time, so it's a while before I accumulate enough rocks to fill the Lot-O, and it only has a 4.5 lb. barrel. Some of the Thumlers are much larger, but people love those too. I think the vibe tumbler saves a lot of money in the long run. Each stage (after roughing in a rotary) takes only about two days instead of a week or more. This saves electricity. I use 2 tablespoons of 220 grit and only 1/2 teaspoon of all grits and polish after that. That's a lot less than in a rotary tumbler. If you plan to tumble a lot of rocks, a vibe tumbler will pay for itself. If you're only going to do a couple batches a year, you should probably just stick with your rotary. By the way, I don't think I ever said "welcome to the forum". So welcome!
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Dec 17, 2015 18:05:11 GMT -5
I'm strongly considering Saving up for that Lot-O. It sounds like a good, sturdy, fast machine. However I like my rocks more rounded. Please post a pic of one of your best vibe stones.just want to get a concept of how a "rock still in its original shape, except polished." Thanks..
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 17, 2015 22:09:28 GMT -5
I like rounded stones too, so I do all of my coarse tumbling in the rotary, then start with the second stage one the Lot-O. Here's a thread about the time I didn't do the rough grind in a rotary tumbler.
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Jan 2, 2016 12:39:31 GMT -5
Sorry for the long period of absense. Christmas vacation, or visiting family.. But yeah, my father got some nice lakers for Chirstmas for me. My mother covered the other side of my hobbies with model kits. I got 2lb bag of lakers and pet wood. And over all this, I found why my rocks did not shine. I let them dry in between stages.. Apparently your never to let them dry, always keep them wet. I will appreciate all future help, tips or anything like that. Thanks RJBud1
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