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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 23, 2016 20:14:48 GMT -5
Not sure how it happened but one of my 12 pound roughing barrels ran all week with no grit. I had three of them lined up on the bench and either I just missed one or I added double to one of the others. The result was a pretty clean barrel with some colored water in it. The interesting part was the agates that were in there actually came out with a very smooth feel and satin sheen when dry. So these have only been through a couple weeks in 46/70 and then one week in straight water. Unfortunately I had a bunch of quartz items in the barrel that too a whole lot of abuse. Nothing a few more weeks in 46/70 wont cure though. I never make mistakes so I will just say this was an experiment, HA Chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 23, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5
That's interesting. You said that you don't rinse your barrels, right? So that little bit of left over grit must have broken down more and polished them a bit. Sounds like James' two step method.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 23, 2016 22:51:30 GMT -5
That's interesting. You said that you don't rinse your barrels, right? So that little bit of left over grit must have broken down more and polished them a bit. Sounds like James' two step method. No clay or sugar though I like that answer but it would be a very minimal amount of anything left in the barrel. Probably about a teaspoon of used up 46/70 grit for the whole 12 pound load. I was not shocked at all by the very bruised up quartz but the sheen on the agates kind of had me scratching my head. Chuck
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Post by glennz01 on Jan 24, 2016 0:50:50 GMT -5
That's interesting. You said that you don't rinse your barrels, right? So that little bit of left over grit must have broken down more and polished them a bit. Sounds like James' two step method. No clay or sugar though I like that answer but it would be a very minimal amount of anything left in the barrel. Probably about a teaspoon of used up 46/70 grit for the whole 12 pound load. I was not shocked at all by the very bruised up quartz but the sheen on the agates kind of had me scratching my head. Chuck I call that a wind blown effect because out here on the river bed the silt does the same thing against the larger rocks (jaspers and agate) from the high winds... Makes them a little easier to find A photo below is of one that was recently exposed so it doesnt have much of a shine to it.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Jan 24, 2016 8:11:05 GMT -5
Ran a clean load with 40% garnets and it did similar. No clay, no grit, just a bunch of tiny garnets. And ended up a good bit shinier than yours. May have run longer. No damage as the garnets padded the load. I think quartz/agate materials can scratch each other, apparently they can impart a finish to each other. Obviously they did if no grit was in barrel. Are you saying that the water allowed the agate to beat the quartz up ? I will say that I used to put 3 times more AO 500 in the Viking and it took much longer to break down. The Viking instructions said to use much more than you Lot-O guys use. Lot-O says to use one tablespoon/5 pounds I believe ? So I started using 2 tablespoons/14 pounds and am getting much faster AO 500 breakdown. Better polish too. I think bushmanbilly's grit supplier says less finer grit is better (to a point) in the vibe or rotary
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 24, 2016 8:38:55 GMT -5
Ran a clean load with 40% garnets and it did similar. No clay, no grit, just a bunch of tiny garnets. And ended up a good bit shinier than yours. May have run longer. No damage as the garnets padded the load. I think quartz/agate materials can scratch each other, apparently they can impart a finish to each other. Obviously they did if no grit was in barrel. Are you saying that the water allowed the agate to beat the quartz up ? I will say that I used to put 3 times more AO 500 in the Viking and it took much longer to break down. The Viking instructions said to use much more than you Lot-O guys use. Lot-O says to use one tablespoon/5 pounds I believe ? So I started using 2 tablespoons/14 pounds and am getting much faster AO 500 breakdown. Better polish too. I think bushmanbilly's grit supplier says less finer grit is better (to a point) in the vibe or rotary The quartz got beat up because no slurry was formed so there was no protection from the agates. There was rose quartz, clear quartz, citrine and rutilated in the mix. Here's the amount of grit and polish for the loto. 120/200 gets 2 tablespoons500 gets 1/2 teaspoon1000 if needed gets 1/2 teaspoonpolish gets 1/2 teaspoonchuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Jan 24, 2016 9:19:34 GMT -5
Ran a clean load with 40% garnets and it did similar. No clay, no grit, just a bunch of tiny garnets. And ended up a good bit shinier than yours. May have run longer. No damage as the garnets padded the load. I think quartz/agate materials can scratch each other, apparently they can impart a finish to each other. Obviously they did if no grit was in barrel. Are you saying that the water allowed the agate to beat the quartz up ? I will say that I used to put 3 times more AO 500 in the Viking and it took much longer to break down. The Viking instructions said to use much more than you Lot-O guys use. Lot-O says to use one tablespoon/5 pounds I believe ? So I started using 2 tablespoons/14 pounds and am getting much faster AO 500 breakdown. Better polish too. I think bushmanbilly's grit supplier says less finer grit is better (to a point) in the vibe or rotary The quartz got beat up because no slurry was formed so there was no protection from the agates. There was rose quartz, clear quartz, citrine and rutilated in the mix. Here's the amount of grit and polish for the loto. 120/200 gets 2 tablespoons500 gets 1/2 teaspoon1000 if needed gets 1/2 teaspoonpolish gets 1/2 teaspoonchuck Oh, a half TEASPOON. Man that is a tiny dose. Will be cutting back on that 2 tablespoon dose. I thought you made a mistake but you color highlighted it LOL. I get it now. I was looking for an article written by a tumbling abrasive company that wrote an article about using less abrasive. TLK or TDL, can't remember. The clay, I have to say it works well in the rotary in coarse. On delicate stuff. On round pebbles. The more I use it the more I like it. After two weeks, SiC 30 is butchered and rocks have a nice 400 looking shine on the Mohs 7 stuff. The more I run the clay with the coarse grit the more it seems to break down faster than starting with water. As if the thick slurry has a positive effect on breaking down the grit. Does not make sense. On a 50/50 load of quartz and agate there will not be a single frost pit in the quartz with clay slurry. tumbler quiet. gentle rock action but fast grit breakdown, go figure. Those PVC barrels will darn sure frost a 50/50 mix of quartz and agate in coarse-everytime if I don't thicken the slurry.
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 24, 2016 9:35:03 GMT -5
The quartz got beat up because no slurry was formed so there was no protection from the agates. There was rose quartz, clear quartz, citrine and rutilated in the mix. Here's the amount of grit and polish for the loto. 120/200 gets 2 tablespoons500 gets 1/2 teaspoon1000 if needed gets 1/2 teaspoonpolish gets 1/2 teaspoonchuck Oh, a half TEASPOON. Man that is a tiny dose. Will be cutting back on that 2 tablespoon dose. I thought you made a mistake but you color highlighted it LOL. I get it now. I was looking for an article written by a tumbling abrasive company that wrote an article about using less abrasive. TLK or TDL, can't remember. But you have to remember he's only running a 4lb barrel. So if you do the math and round up a bit, you could use 2tsp and still be gravy (since it breaks down so quickly).
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 24, 2016 9:45:58 GMT -5
Not half bad...
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,563
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Post by jamesp on Jan 24, 2016 10:49:05 GMT -5
Yes broseph82. I was using 2 tablespoons, not 2 teaspoons. Big difference. Surprised at just using a half teaspoon, will change my way.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 24, 2016 12:59:16 GMT -5
Your 12#ers run how fast? Mine run at about 55rpm. Very efficient at breaking down grit.
Got a couple pounds of stragglers from my last run that all have a satin near shine.
Maybe you did a burnish?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 24, 2016 14:59:25 GMT -5
Your 12#ers run how fast? Mine run at about 55rpm. Very efficient at breaking down grit. Got a couple pounds of stragglers from my last run that all have a satin near shine. Maybe you did a burnish? what brand are you running that runs 55? my lortones run under 40. Chuck
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Post by glennz01 on Jan 24, 2016 16:16:17 GMT -5
55 rpm sounds very fast.. my 40 lb runs at 30 and I thought that was fast
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 25, 2016 10:19:44 GMT -5
Your 12#ers run how fast? Mine run at about 55rpm. Very efficient at breaking down grit. Got a couple pounds of stragglers from my last run that all have a satin near shine. Maybe you did a burnish? what brand are you running that runs 55? my lortones run under 40. Chuck I'm running a Lortone C200. One of their "shop production" machines. Once I began using it I was concerned that the speed might fracture some agates. Doesn't seem to be the case though. It does a good job. Have seen your homemade tumbler here several times. Nice. Couldn't remember if you had ever posted RPM's.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 25, 2016 10:24:48 GMT -5
55 rpm sounds very fast.. my 40 lb runs at 30 and I thought that was fast When I first started using this machine the speed did concern me somewhat. Worried about fracture and chips. Hasn't been an issue.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 25, 2016 10:41:31 GMT -5
My home made I can adjust the speed with pulleys but I swear my bone stock lortone QT12 tumblers run less then 40 RPM. I think 55 is fine as long as the barrel is filled enough. Thickeners and slurry might be more important at 55 too. I do not use any additives at all at 40 RPM. C200 is a sweet tumbler. I would like to build something very similar to the C300. 36 pounds a rough seems like the most I like to have in the rotaries lately and the C300 looks like the perfect choice. Three twelves is much better then a single 40. I like to have the option to have different items in different barrels and I also like the option to just run a 6 pound or 12 pound barrel alone if that all the rough I have at the time.
Chuck
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