Garberg
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Post by Garberg on Mar 20, 2016 9:59:01 GMT -5
I was thinking of mounting a vibrator on a rotary tumbler to see what would happen but maybe someone here has already tried it? What would the upside/downside be to such a tumbler?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 10:02:02 GMT -5
Sorry.gonna have to do it.that sounds like an awesome way for your rocks to orgasmn,as far as aiding in tumbling.im gonna have to say no.but I'm no expert. Dave
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2016 10:24:28 GMT -5
I was thinking of mounting a vibrator on a rotary tumbler to see what would happen but maybe someone here has already tried it? What would the upside/downside be to such a tumbler? Best 3rd post ever. Welcome to the forum. Me the mad scientist and would love to see just what you are discussing. Vibes break down coarse Silicon Carbide particles very fast, like 30 grit to 220 grit in 24 hours in my vibe. Which is too fast to do much grinding I suppose. The rotary takes 3-7 days to break down 30 grit to 80 grit in most cases. The coarse grind is 80% of the time to tumble a load. So it may be detrimental in that it breaks the brittle coarse SiC particles down too fast. I will say that some of my PVC barrels have bumps and lumps and are bouncy on the rollers at a much lower frequency than a vibe(vibe being 2000-4000/second). sonic I like the bumpy barrels as I think they keep things shook up within. Thought about a 10-20 sided barrel that rolled rough. But at 30 RPM a 20 sided barrel woulds only be 20 bumps per 2 seconds, so 10 vibrations/second. Any such stimulation may add to the grind, looks like testing may answer question. One of my PVC barrels got stuck on the shaft and the shaft wore a 1/8 inch divot into the barrel. Happened before and I ground it off. This time I let it go and the divots propagated all the way around the barrel like an out of balance tire. Must be 15 divots equally spaced. Amusing to watch the barrel bounce, the roller shafts are 1.5 inch solid steel and could not care less if the barrel bounces. Gotta wonder what effect it has on the grind.
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johnnymac1969
starting to spend too much on rocks
I Like A Rolling Stone
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Post by johnnymac1969 on Mar 20, 2016 10:54:08 GMT -5
I was thinking of mounting a vibrator on a rotary tumbler to see what would happen but maybe someone here has already tried it? What would the upside/downside be to such a tumbler? My wife read your post, went to her closet to get something and then headed right to the basement. I haven't seen her for hours. All kidding aside, I suggest that you use the term "vibe" (short for vibratory). Calling them a vibrator will get you a lot of smart ass remarks, like mine above.
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Garberg
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Post by Garberg on Mar 20, 2016 10:59:19 GMT -5
Well, I don't want a bouncing barrel. But I was thinking more like mounting the vibrator horisontally so that the barrel moves sideways (mostly anyway) while rotating, not up and down.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2016 11:19:30 GMT -5
Well, I don't want a bouncing barrel. But I was thinking more like mounting the vibrator horisontally so that the barrel moves sideways (mostly anyway) while rotating, not up and down. All I can say is the high rate of vibration from a vibe is a rapid grit smasher. The passive grinding action of a plain rotary may be best way for shaping rocks with coarse grit. I just happen to have a polyurethane vibe hopper that allows very coarse grit. And was amazed how fast it crushed the coarse grit to nothing. Maybe a good analogy would be sanding a piece of steel with 80 grit sand paper with 5 pounds of pressure and not 'crushing' the grit but letting it cut for a long time. Versus 200 pounds of pressure and possibly crushing the grit before it has a chance to abrade with 80 grit sized particles. Vibes work great for imparting a micro finish quickly since they can break down 500 grit from 500 to 1000 to 5000 to 15,000 in 5 days in some cases. Laying down a micro finish is much different than rounding edges and shaping rocks. Grinding verses finishing. Finish is light work, grinding is time consuming and eats a lot of grit. Such a vibrating rotary may still be very fast but you may have to feed it coarse grit daily. If it rounded rocks fast then it may be the best way.
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Garberg
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Post by Garberg on Mar 20, 2016 11:53:03 GMT -5
johnnymac1969: So what? I used my wifes actual vibrator to make a makeshift ultrasonic washer to wash out any grit stuck in the rocks. So, if I use the term vibratory instead of vibe, it may be because I've used an actual vibrator :-)
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2016 13:58:16 GMT -5
getting deep
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Garberg
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Post by Garberg on Mar 20, 2016 16:54:42 GMT -5
Well, to get back on topic. You say that a rotating vibe tumbler would go through grit fast. What if I use tungsten carbide? Has anyone tried that?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2016 17:11:53 GMT -5
Silicon carbide is the only affordable grit I know of for effective coarse grinding. it is very sharp and breaks into very sharp pieces. Loves to cut with low pressure typical in a tumbler barrel.
Yes, vibrations at 2000 to 4000 should disintegrate SiC fast.
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sschus87
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Post by sschus87 on Mar 24, 2016 7:47:25 GMT -5
Well, I don't want a bouncing barrel. But I was thinking more like mounting the vibrator horisontally so that the barrel moves sideways (mostly anyway) while rotating, not up and down. Vibes work great for imparting a micro finish quickly since they can break down 500 grit from 500 to 1000 to 5000 to 15,000 in 5 days in some cases. Laying down a micro finish is much different than rounding edges and shaping rocks. Grinding verses finishing. Finish is light work, grinding is time consuming and eats a lot of grit. If this is the case, why can't I just leave rocks in the vibe and not have to ever change grit? Wouldn't my 120/220 become my 500 which would then become my polish grit? Maybe I missed something here, so forgive my ignorance if I did... Thanks---Steve
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2016 8:38:52 GMT -5
Vibes work great for imparting a micro finish quickly since they can break down 500 grit from 500 to 1000 to 5000 to 15,000 in 5 days in some cases. Laying down a micro finish is much different than rounding edges and shaping rocks. Grinding verses finishing. Finish is light work, grinding is time consuming and eats a lot of grit. If this is the case, why can't I just leave rocks in the vibe and not have to ever change grit? Wouldn't my 120/220 become my 500 which would then become my polish grit? Maybe I missed something here, so forgive my ignorance if I did... Thanks---Steve There is a good reason Steve. You can do that. But SiC is a poor polisher, great cutter. Use the SiC 30-80-60/90 in the rotary till it breaks down to 300-400-500 in the last coarse grit addition if allowed to run 14 days. Then transition to aluminum oxide 500 in a vibe, one of the finest polishing grits. And the vibe the quickest to apply a polish. SiC breaks down in sharp particles, aluminum oxide does not break so much, it rounds. Rotary action great for cutting and slowly breaking down SiC particles, vibe best at rounding off aluminum oxide particles and applying finish. By the same token, if you use aluminum oxide 30-80-60/90 in the rotary your Mohs 7 rocks will take forever to shape. AO not a good cutter. Two machines matched with two grit types, maximum efficiency and results. Below is used ceramic media. Most ceramic media is 95-97 percent aluminum oxide. Meaning it is giant aluminum oxide grit 'pellets'. Small aluminum oxide particles do the same thing as these big media pellets. Big pellets take a 500 finish when starting out in the vibe, as the 500 breaks down(rounds) the pellets start to get a polish along with the target rocks. Those hard pellets help speed the break down the aluminum oxide 500 in the vibe, as they are Mohs 9+. just an analogy, large pellets AO to small particles AO.
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indiana
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Post by indiana on Mar 24, 2016 8:47:26 GMT -5
That's goood to know James, I never knew why AO was used for the final stage(s).
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 24, 2016 9:36:37 GMT -5
You never know,till you try!
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sschus87
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Post by sschus87 on Mar 24, 2016 11:09:10 GMT -5
Right now I have been running 46/70 SiC in my tumbler, running agate rough and cleaning out every week or so. Some rocks have been in for 6 weeks and still aren't where I want them to be.
At the same time, I have a 5# vibe that I run with rough that I have trimmed on my saw to get it to the shape I want. I start with 120/220 SiC and recharge it after a couple days and run it total for about a week. I know this is probably longer than necessary, but it works with my schedule. Then I clean it out and run with 500 AO for about a week also with a recharge after a couple of days.
Final step is in my 3# vibe with 1200 AO for polish. Again, I probably run this longer than I need, but it runs for about a week.
Couple of questions:
1) Will running too long in the vibe at any stage actually work against me? Can I overdo it?
2) Is 1200 AO the best polish I can use, or should I be looking for something better?
3) My media is the cross shaped spacers that are used in the ceramic tile trade. I use them for cushioning and to carry the grit and polish around better. The seem to last forever too. Good idea?
Thanks again for your help and input!!
Thanks---Steve
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2016 12:26:42 GMT -5
Right now I have been running 46/70 SiC in my tumbler, running agate rough and cleaning out every week or so. Some rocks have been in for 6 weeks and still aren't where I want them to be. At the same time, I have a 5# vibe that I run with rough that I have trimmed on my saw to get it to the shape I want. I start with 120/220 SiC and recharge it after a couple days and run it total for about a week. I know this is probably longer than necessary, but it works with my schedule. Then I clean it out and run with 500 AO for about a week also with a recharge after a couple of days. Final step is in my 3# vibe with 1200 AO for polish. Again, I probably run this longer than I need, but it runs for about a week. Couple of questions: 1) Will running too long in the vibe at any stage actually work against me? Can I overdo it? 2) Is 1200 AO the best polish I can use, or should I be looking for something better? 3) My media is the cross shaped spacers that are used in the ceramic tile trade. I use them for cushioning and to carry the grit and polish around better. The seem to last forever too. Good idea? Thanks again for your help and input!! Thanks---Steve Steve, I use 1 cup water and 1 cup sugar per 15 pounds of rock in the vibe, 2 tablespoons of ROCK SHED AO 500 for 4 days. After those 4 days I have a killer polish. And often I will run one tablespoon ROCK SHED AO 14,000 for 24 hours with one tablespoon Borax for super luster. I have AO 1000-3000-5000 and never ever use it. 4 days in AO 500 and I would guess it is AO 10,000 at the end. Makes the 1000-3000-5000 redundant. Media/no media-does not matter. I use pea gravel size quartz/agate mix in the vibe . But have used ceramic media w/same result. Note- If on the 3rd day of AO 500 you should have a really nice shine starting. If not, our vibes are behaving differently. Which is totally possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 18:37:46 GMT -5
An old high school girlfriend messaged me and told me about the "tooling" in this thread. Since she was an expert on the topic I decided to check it out.
She was right.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 24, 2016 22:47:27 GMT -5
Peter Positive ? @shotgunner
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 23:30:45 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 25, 2016 6:48:54 GMT -5
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